Protecting pedophiles while protecting children

by stillin 155 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  stillin

  DataDog: good clear thinking. Thanks. I would add to your list an incident where a self-righteous elder makes a mountain out of nothing just to get at a brother he doesn't like. I know of at least one case like that.

  Vid: I certainly don't share the view that pedophilia is innocuous or a sin without repercussions. Yes, it needs to be actively dealt with, not handled "in house." The current approach that WTS has is that if an offender doesn't't get caught for a few years, he can start carrying mikes again. (Woohoo!) I'm not so sure that that's a good idea, either.

  Tale: true, As a counselor you have likely seen many of the slavering,sickos that most of these people here are thinking about. I certainly agree that the elders are WAY under qualified for any of that; hopefully wherever one of these cases pops up, the local police will be as competent and discerning as some of the more naive ones here seem to think they will be.

  jhine: master stroke; my daughter WAS molested by a "brother" on the JW side of the family. I have had the go-round with the elders. They didn't call the police, they didn't even tell ME! Ii was beyond my thinking. My wife told me several years after more of what had happened. The "brother" had moved away and was then pioneering and being brother exemplary somewhere. He had better not show up on my porch or I'll be the one in jail.

  But it DID catch up with him. Everybody wants instant justice, like in the movies. But those wheels turn slowly. That brother never claimed his prize of being the venerated, cherished family patriarch/congregation elder. I'm glad that I could have a part in theexecuting of a measure of justice. He never will, thanks to the change in WT policy. Whatever the motive, they are doing something.
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  *lost*

  cofty - I used Biblical terminology, obviously.

  Stillin - I didn't bring your wife into the discussion, you did.

  Your daughter was abused, you and your wife still support the WT and it's policies, fine, that's your choice.
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  Truth seeker 674

  Stillin I would like you to tell me why the WBT$ is appealing the Conti Case? Could it be "that an outright addmision of guilt would have the wolves at there back"? Maybe thats would should happen, wolves got to eat too!

  I know they would council anyone in thier organization to admit thier serious sin and beg Jehovah's forgiveness. Doesn't it seem that as an organization finally dealing with pedofilia in their ranks that they should be held to their own standards collectively as they would hold an individual?

  When they disfellowship someone rightly or wrongly and announce it from the platform are they not putting the wolf at the backs of individualls?

  I just don't know what else to ask ?
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  jhine

  stillin, you did not answer my question , what did you say to your daughter about the man who hurt her ? how did you explain to her that he was still free to hurt other children ? Do you not see , yes you say it caught up with him eventually but how many OTHER children did he molest while no -one was doing anything ? Do you not care about the others that probably were molested by this man ?

  How do you look your daughter in the eyes when she knows that you and your JW Friends did nothing to bring this man to justice , that she never got the chance to testify against him ( important to victims ) . Is she still in the org.?

  You might not have found out until later but you should have , for her sake , reported him , to show your daughter that you take her welfare , physical , mental and spiritual , seriously . What do you feel about your wife keeping this from you ? You said that you admire her for keeping her faith in Jehovah , no , she kept her loyalty to the org .

  I think that this defence of the org is an attempt to ease your guilt , for doing it their way , you are trying to justify their methods , which quite frankly stink .

  I wonder if your daughter would agree with their methods and think that the outcome justified the means ?
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  punkofnice

  I am not getting involved with arguing or calling anyone here.

  Quite simply the watchtower(R) corporation should actually protect children from paedos and also enforce that they are reported to the Police immediately.

  Little steps forward on a problem so vast is too little too late. I still suspect it's because the GB, some or one of them is using the padophile protection clause to protect themselves. Otherwise they'd dilligently do their utmost to be a blessing to the children in the congregations.
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  Vidiot

  stillin - "Any organization can be accused of the same things."

  Wrong.

  Authoritarian organizations are the ones that overwhelmingly have these problems, because of their inherent nature.

  You will almost never find them in churches that embrace fiscal and administrative transparency, utilize the democratic process, and foster a healthy and genuine respect for history and science.
• 

  Vidiot

  Vidqun - "The 'brothers' have a very low opinion of the victim."

  There's a common gelief amongst religious conservatives that childrens' testimonies are fundamentally unreliable; we've all heard the phrase "kids lie all the time", and there are scriptures that are often used to reinforce that prevailing attitude.

  It's a view that seems to have its origins in the conservative axiom that all humans are fundamentally bad and need to be kept on a short leash for their own and everybody else's own damn good. Therefore, it follows that a child is "born bad", and is subsequently untrustworthy.

  Compared to a grown man who's dutifully served for years in a position of responsibility, a skeptical bias towards any child's testimony is virtually inevitable.
• 

  DogGone

  Talesin,

  Where did you get the figure of 97% for recidivism? It is a different figure than I have encountered before. Did you, perhaps, mean that 97% of convicted perps have more than one victim? That sounds likely; I would appreciate learning where that figure came from.

  Recidivism rates have been studied and published. As a side bar, there is considerable variation with recidivism rates between incestuous victims, female victims, and male victims. Notably, perps with non-familial male victims have dramatically higher recidivism rates:

  http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/res/cor/rep/2004-03-se-off-eng.aspx

  It is also worth noting whether the study included in the recidivism criteria any crime, any sexual crime (eg. prostitution), or any sexual crime involving rape or molestation.

  http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter/2010/July/pessimism-about-pedophilia

  Please note: I'm merely trying to insert information that may be more accurate. In no way am I saying incestuous perps should get off easier in a judicial or congregational setting. I have read that incestuous cases have been known to cause more long term harm (much like cases involving religious leaders) due to the exploited trust and additional emotional manipulation. I just think the 97% figure may be inaccurate and misleading.
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  stillin

  Jhine: you make a couple of good points. First, though, my daughter does not remember the "incident" with the brother. She was young and the brother confessed his sin to the elders, of which he was one. That's why it took so long to catch up with him. And,yes, there were other incidents with this guy.

  my guilt? Yes, I got it. I hadn't considered the ins and outs about that with regards to my views of WT policy. But, on the bright side, my daughter has made a break from the org and is happily married with children. She's DF'd but we do ok considering the circumstances. My family is important to me. It's delicate, it's beautiful and it's reasonably healthy.
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  DogGone

  Stillin,

  I don't really want to stick my head into the lion’s mouth, but I did want to say that I'm terribly sorry to hear about your family history. Some of your story resonates with my own. I think it incredibly insensitive that others feel they can publically call you out and shame you without knowing you or the facts of your story.

  I admire you for your polite demeanor in the face of personal attacks. I don’t doubt you love your family and I wanted to, at least, speak up and say I appreciate your input. I also appreciate those who have responded to you in a thought out manner.