You atheist really annoyed me

by confusedandalone 226 Replies latest jw friends

  • talesin
    talesin

    Yes, very typical, Cofty ... say I am shouting at you. Boo-hoo.

    I think sbf summed up the way I feel about this subject perfectly.

    Staunch JW - contempt for the views of non-JWs

    then

    Staunch Christian - contempt for the views of JWs

    then

    Staunch atheist - contempt for the views of believers of any kind

    The beliefs change radically, but the attitude to the views of others remains constant.

    Your contempt for any discussion you think is 'irrational' is obvious by the way you speak to others. You make all atheists look bad. And I find that to be abusive to those newbies who are trying to find their own belief systems, or to folks who trying to discuss topics that are still mysteries and not proven by hard science. So I speak up.

    So be it. You don't intimidate me, just because you've read a lot of books, and have a keen mind. That gives you no right to denigrate others for their belief systems. Even Einstein possessed a large degree of humility. Perhaps you should study up on that.

    t

  • The Scotsman
    The Scotsman

    If I spoke to a believer like that I would quite rightly be hounded for it.

    You do and you are....

    What an advert for atheism you truly are....

    With such sanctimonious contempt for others you could possible convince a current active JW to re-consider leaving that cult.
    I think you (and others) need to remember the general purpose / objective of this site / forum.

    With master strokes of incomparable hypocrisy you alienate yourself from nearly all others on here.

    If you wish to discuss atheism and all its complexities perhaps you should move on to somewhere more appropriate.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    O.K Tal. and the Scotsman, let that be an end of it.

    Cofty has asked you to convey your thoughts to him by P.M, kindly do so, this thread is not the place for the sort of post you just wrote.

    I for one, like to engage in discussion, this is such a discussion Forum, your personal spats are of no interest.

  • The Scotsman
    The Scotsman

    Cofty has asked you to convey your thoughts to him by P.M, kindly do so, this thread is not the place for the sort of post you just wrote

    Sorry - but are you Cofty's secretary or something - he is quite capable of speaking for himself as has been demonstrated.
    And to suggest that somehow my comments are not appropriate for this site but you saying nothing regarding other posts on here reveals your true intent / feelings on the matter.

    And I quote the purpose of this forum -

    The place to discuss anything relating to Jehovah's Witnesses and the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society

    I am interested in helping people escape the Watchtower cult not have meaningless debates.

    End of.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    With master strokes of incomparable hypocrisy you alienate yourself from nearly all others on here.

    Nonsense. Cofty makes very valuable contributions to this forum. He helps me to keep my mind honest. I value that reminder. It IS important to provide evidence. Not just for others that demand it...but for ourselves.

    The only time I do not attempt to provide evidence to support what I am saying, is when I am simply exploring an idea and am interested in OTHERS views on a subject. But evidence is not all he asks for. He also provides logic most of the time, he doesn't just sit there going "show me the evidence" he normally contributes greatly to discussions with HIS evidence. For example the threads about evolution etc....they are invaluable. And he helps me to see things from a different perspective. I don't always agree with everything (that would just be odd to do that with ANYONE)...but I value that perspective.

    I think some people can be far too precious about their ideas and beliefs.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    I am interested in helping people escape the Watchtower cult not have meaningless debates.

    They are NOT meaningless....I have learnt a GREAT DEAL from those debates. Some of them have really changed my life. They have inspired me to research for myself and ask questions I never would have thought of myself.

    There are many ways people help people. One size does not fit all. Even the trinity debates that were on here when I first joined helped me to begin to think critically. There is nothing more valuable than hearing two sides of a debate. THAT is what is lacking with the WTS, its their side, and their side only. There is NO debate. You must accept the commonly held belief or bear the consequences.

    These debates inspired me to watch other debates on youtube etc...debates between christians and atheists. These debates inspired me to read more books. Something would spark my interest and I would research it. There is no value that can be put on debate.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Cofty

    Why don't you just take pride in blind faith despite all the evidence to the contrary. That I could respect.

    Right there is the sort of condescending attitude towards believers that poisons any discussion with you. Besides, you're not being true to yourself. You don't respect blind faith - nor do you acknowledge any other kind of faith but a 'blind one' - at all.

    Eden

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    I am interested in helping people escape the Watchtower cult not have meaningless debates.

    IMO one of the best ways to do this is undermining the very foundation on which this and many other cults are based on, the Bible. By showing that the bible is a just a book of myths and legends that has no purpose in 21st century society we destroy the basis of the control that this WT uses.

    Debates about the existence of sky daddies help to erode the idea of an infallible book inspired by an all knowing creator.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Wow - Cofty did not deserve this. Seems to me to be hypocritical posts by those pretending to value 'constructive' dialogue.

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    I’ve never understood this whole thing about blind faith anyway. Indeed it is true that some believers seem to posit faith without evidence as a virtue and it is true that if the atheist takes issue with blind faith they have a valid point. There is though a distinction to be made between scientific evidence or to put it another way, evidence that befits the scientific method, and evidence that is not amenable to the scientific method and may not even be able to be.

    Many believers don’t have blind faith but faith based on non-scientific evidence. This is where ideology comes in with atheism because some atheists would vehemently argue that evidence that is not scientific, or amenable to scientific methodology, is not evidence as all. At this point no middle ground between this type of atheistic world view and `rational` believers, who do see the need for evidence, albeit non-scientific, is possible. A wedge is also drawn between atheist and atheist, as some atheists do believe in the existence of non-scientific reality. Thus atheists of the type, who only believe scientific reality and evidence, constitute a type of atheism that denies another type of atheism, one type being a materialist world view, which poses as many questions as it answers, and is thus not very `rational` in this sense. The other type includes the validity of science but does not necessarily limit all existence to science, knowing that such questions that are outside of the scientific paradigm may well be valid questions of philosophy and metaphysics, none of which has to include God, although it could, if one is a theist.

    So we have a spectrum here between different types of theist and different types of atheist, with the issue of contention revolving around the need for evidence. It seems to start from some saying no evidence is needed all the way to one hundred percent material evidence is needed. Of course there are problems with both ends of this spectrum if viewed only through a materialist lens but that is another discussion. It seems obvious to me that in reality the most `relational` view and approach to understanding is not in the far ends of this spectrum but in the middle regions. It is here also where dialogue can be had and even a future for mankind if we are not to rip ourselves apart with ideological madness. I say oppose those on either end of the spectrum as irrational or fundamentalist and join those in the middle regions, irrespective if they are atheist or theist for there is dialogue there and the potential for progress and peace.

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