by confusedandalone 226 Replies latest jw friends
This is the reason why I think that Agnosticism and Apatheism make theoretical sense, whereas pure atheism doesn't make sense, as is as devoided of empirical evidence just as much as the theism it attempts to disprove.
Another thing that causes me to cringe is that most atheists insist that atheism is rooted in 'good' science, whereas theism is either rooted in simple mythology or 'poor' science.
Eden
Some people just go through many stages but keep the exact same mentality throughout:
Staunch JW - contempt for the views of non-JWs
then
Staunch Christian - contempt for the views of JWs
then
Staunch atheist - contempt for the views of believers of any kind
The beliefs change radically, but the attitude to the views of others remains constant.
If active JWs are the "target", and the goal of this site is to help them escape the cultish hold on their minds, then both atheists and theists can serve them in this respect, having walked in their moccasins.
The conflicts seem to arise when both exJW theists and exJW atheists are the "target" of some members, whatever their motivation, and the subsequent squabbles and put downs don't serve the main goal.
Some have suggested to have a science category, which would seem very appropriate to those intellectuals on both sides, who want to flex their brain muscles, leaving the other categories free of hijacking, since science has NO cathorogy.
The active JWs who contribute the latest news going on in the world of the WBTS is vital to this forum and exJW like me who are curious about how the GB are going to handle the dilemma of their failed end times eschatology coming up to 2014. Our outburst and ad hominem attacks don't contribute diddly squat and may drive them away.
My 2 cents worth ;)
@EdenOne, hope you are better !
Thank you Pterist.
I don't know what just happened to my eyes, but went through many exams and they couldn't find anything wrong and in the meantime it slowly fixed itself. Scary.
Eden
Another thing that causes me to cringe is that most atheists insist that atheism is rooted in 'good' science, whereas theism is either rooted in simple mythology or 'poor' science.
Science really has nothing to do with proving that God or gods exist or do not exist. Scientists are both atheists and diest/theists. My dad was an oceaonographer who was true to his mother's native american roots. He was a scientist who embraced evolution, but felt that there was design and amazing complexity through out the material world. He was not a Christian, though he had been raised in the Episcopal Church. If you do enough research, you find that it's a myth propigated by some, that the majority of scientists are atheists.
I feel that without intelligence behind our material world, some of the theories of how everything began and how it evolves begin to sound as magical and delusional as some of the things believers say. It takes faith to believe theories that propose that inanimate matter somehow came to be animate matter. For me, the extreme complexity of the universe and living things, are evidence that life is not the result of an accident or strange combinations of chemical reactions. Some who believe evolution to be a viable reality also feel that there is an intelligent, guiding force behind it.
I'm back. New set of brake pipes, flexi-hoses front and rear, discs, calipers, pads, shoes, wheel cylinders and wheel bearings fitted to Little Miss Cofty's car.
Cofty - you are full of degenerate pish. - The Scotsman
Thank you for your meaningful contribution.
If I spoke to a believer like that I would quite rightly be hounded for it.
Many atheists (not all, sure) look down on believers, because they consider them intellectually challenged somehow and, having rationallity as their own criteria... - Eden One
It has nothing to do with intelligence. I have never said or implied believers lack intelligence.
It is about being rational. Our beliefs should be commensurate with the evidence. The word "rational" has the root of ratio or proportion.
If being rational is not your criteria for what you believe what is?
Lisa Rose - I don't know if you are talking to me? If so, I reject your characterisation of me completely. I have done loads of work to help people think critically about their beliefs. If some don't like my style that's just too bad. Hopefully they will relate to somebody else. Being popular isn't high on my agenda.
most atheists insist that atheism is rooted in 'good' science, whereas theism is either rooted in simple mythology or 'poor' science. - Eden One
There are good scientists among theists and atheists.
Theism is rooted in mythology - that's just a fact you need to own up to. There is no science that in any way lends support to theism.
Why don't you just take pride in blind faith despite all the evidence to the contrary. That I could respect.
It takes faith to believe theories that propose that inanimate matter somehow came to be animate matter. - FHN
The more you understand the topic the more you will see that no faith is required.
COFTY. Lisa Rose - I don't know if you are talking to me? If so, I reject your characterisation of me completely. I have done loads of work to help people think critically about their beliefs. If some don't like my style that's just too bad. Hopefully they will relate to somebody else. Being popular isn't high on my agenda.
Not you in particular, but if the shoe fits......Yes, you have done a lot to help people to think critically, did I not say that the we need the Athiests here on the forum and all your rcontributions? Your statement that it's too bad that some don't like your style speaks volumes as to your attitude. Fine, yes it's not a popularity contest, but you would do more good if you were not so condescending. I don't care, I have learned a lot, and anyway I'm not really a believer (except when it comes to my cat, she is going to heaven, lol ).
Thinking critically about your beliefs doesn't necessarily lead to atheism.Sometimes it strengthens your belief that we can't possibly be alone, without some kind of diety.
"Belief" in the sense most of us are using it on this thread, means trusting that something is true with no proof. (As I said above, I mean Cofty-proof.)
That is fine for many many people in this world, most of them lead happy fulfilled lives, and contribute to society.
For those of us who have decided we want to lead evidence based lives, we will only trust that something is true if Cofty-proof exists for it, we too are able to live a good life.
I do not see why, if one is happy in his/her position, there should be a seeking to convert those of the other camp.
But, rightly so, when believers try to bludgeon we non-believers with there ideas, and when they present as fact that which is not, Cofty, Cantleave, me, or one of the many other non-theists on here will call Bull**** .
If we non-theists make a contention about belief which is not accurate, you believers call us on it, and rightly so. I don't see any problem with the above, but when posters degenerate in to children and start Ad Hominem attacks there is a problem, we may drive potential posters away, we do not want that.
Grow up chaps.
By the way Cofty, nothing to do with what I have just written, but, I actually like your style, acerbic some would say, but succinct and well put I say,
carry on !
The Quiet One
wasn't Hitler an atheist, and heavy into the occult. didn't millions of people die etc because of him ?
as an example.
