The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis

by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private

• 

  besty

  Marvin fuelled this thread for 10 pages and promptly disappeared when I asked him a question on page 10:

  @marvin:

  My aim was to reduce potential for harm as quickly as possible. Because there was some resistance to changing the Facebook thing by BBXB leadership, I took the liberty to advise that they rethink that resistance and stop the thing

  On what date did you offer this advice, and to whom?

  Anyways, useful to know that Bo Jensen is the egomaniac in charge of AAWA. Barb had his number from Day 1 - its not her first rodeo :-)
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “But c'mon people. Get the other side. There was clear inaction on Cedars' part and first he wants to imply that the email interchange didn't take place, then he wants everyone to blame faceless others. When that didn't work, he put a name to those others hoping to shift blame to them.”

  OnTheWayOut,

  Insofar as I can tell there is no evidence the email exchange you allude to occurred as claimed. Should we accept the assertion because it’s made?

  No one here disputes BBXB volunteers created a terrible problem. No one here disputes BBXB leadership carries responsibility for how that problem was managed. But the email exchange that’s leveraged between SST and Cedars is asserted by SST without evidence it occurred as presented.

  You asked me early in this discussion about my familiarity with your work, and in particular about your book. I read that book for Barbara Anderson in order to answer her request that I do so and advise whether it was a good addition to her web site in my opinion. I recommended it. Probably I was one of the first few persons who read your story, at least after you shared it with Barbara.

  besty,

  I’ve been away.

  In answer to your question…

  “On what date did you offer this advice, and to whom?”

  I see no need and will not fuel this fire by sharing the name of the first person at BBXB I spoke with about the matter you inquire of. It’s enough to say the person was one of the individuals named on the then BBXB web site in top leadership, and that it was not Cedars.

  I don’t recall the date. I do recall my communication occurred the moment it first came to my attention that a potential breach of confidence had occurred.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  besty

  In answer to your question…

  In other words, I'm not telling you and I can't remember. Your reason - 'not fuelling the thread' - given your endless series of tedious questions on this and other AAWA threads is hypocritical. It took you 10 pages on one of them to figure out what force-adding was :-)

  You like questions Marvin, and you like asking other people to prove their assertions, and quite quick to call foul when it suits you. But now all of sudden you have become a little coy with material details concerning your own assertions. Noted.
• 

  cantleave

  Cedars this, Barbara Anderson that, Marvin Shilmer, Bo, AWAA - Bloody hell all this name dropping.

  Are certain ex-JW's trying aiming for some sort of celebrity status?

  FFS time to get real lives people.
• 

  besty

  FFS time to get real lives people.

  This thread is about someone being outed in real lfe.
• 

  cantleave

  Yes Besty - Exactly

  edit - I think AWAA and some people involved in ex-JW activities are taking themselves too seriously, and forgeting their real purpose.
• 

  zed is dead

  What cantleave just said reminds me of the poignant SST quote from the OP:

  "I don't know who's more dangerous, JWs or ex-JWs who want to make careers out of writing critical things about JWs?"

  This is the crux of the problem. We have ambitious people that say they want to represent all ex-JWs and help those leaving the organization. In reality, their ego and pride has them put the needs of their organization first, and those of individual ex-JWs last. People like SST are just pawns to be manipulated and used. In their view, all methods are fair in their efforts to take down the Watchtower. The driving force is to build a reputation for themselves individually and as a group.

  zed
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “In other words, I'm not telling you and I can't remember. Your reason - 'not fuelling the thread' - given your endless series of tedious questions on his and other AAWA threads is hypocritical.”

  besty,

  I could research my phone records and emails and determine probably within a day or two when I offered the piece of advice you inquire of. But precisely who I spoke with is of no business of mine to share with you, or anyone else here. It was one of the original names identified as top leadership in BBXB. That’s enough to share publicly.

  “It took you 10 pages on one of them to figure out what force-adding was…”

  It was pretty clear that force added was a bad thing and that subjects of the practice have not given permission for their addition. It did not take me or anyone else “10 pages” to figure that out. What took so many pages was trying to get folks like you to answer precise questions, some of which never were answered.

  “You like questions Marvin, and you like asking other people to prove their assertions, and quite quick to call foul when it suits you. But now all of sudden you have become a little coy with material details concerning your own assertions. Noted.”

  The precise person I first contacted with BBXB with advice to remove the Facebook group is not particularly material to this discussion. It’s only important to know that it was one of the then advertised top leadership of the group.

  Otherwise, my discussion was held under an understanding of cooperation and mutual respect. It’s not my business to publicly tell your or anyone else who chooses to discuss what with me, unless there is a clear understanding that to do so is acceptable. In my world that’s called ethics. It’s courtesy.

  “This thread is about someone being outed in real life.”

  I can honestly say that I’ve yet to see that proven. Yet you state it as established fact. Noted.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  UnConfused

  Ah Marvin, if you only held yourself to the same standard of proof you are insisting from others. Of course what is obvious is that you are conversing with cedars on the side and he's telling you the conversation with SST never happened.

  Well I can't prove or disprove and neither can you.

  You choose to believe cedars because of your exposure to him. I'm compelled to not because of my exposure to him.
• 

  zed is dead

  I see Marvin is pulling his own string again.

  We have to give him proof. He doesn't have to give proof, much like Cedars.

  Obfuscation at its finest, or worst. He can go obfuscate himself.

  zed