The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis (page 26)

cedars

OnTheWayOut

So, let me paraphrase this:

If trying to simplify something that isn't simple is your thing, be my guest. If you haven't learned by this stage in your life that sometimes things happen that are not "black and white" as it were (especially when they involve more than one person), then you are in for a rude awakening.

I've noticed that some are quicker to find perspective in this whole affair than others. In my own experience before this AAWA debacle, I've noticed that not everyone in the Ex-JW community is willing to apologise for their mistakes. If you are responding to me in this way despite my willingness to say "sorry," I dread to think what your reaction to me would have been if I had been unrepentant. I suspect you would have been just as scathing, no more, no less.

As I said before... if I just apologise I am criticized for not giving more information; if I give more information I am criticized for being too defensive and therefore unapologetic. It's a catch 22.

Cedars

tim hooper

If there is but one thing I've learned in life it's that grudge-holding is one of the most destructive practises known to mankind. In this case the arguing has been done to death. There is just no more to be said that's of any benefit to anyone.

IMHO, it's time the apologies ceased and it's time that the endless probing ceased. Lessons will have been learned even if it isn't fully apparent yet.

Sometimes the only way to end a quarrel is to simply draw a line, start again and refuse to go back - or be drawn - over that line.

cedars

tim hooper

Sometimes the only way to end a quarrel is to simply draw a line, start again and refuse to go back - or be drawn - over that line.

Agreed. I'd best leave this thread alone. I've said all I can say.

Cedars

zed is dead

Cedars,

You still haven't answered the simple question, do you still accuse SST of lying? Do you still accuse me of making the whole thing up?

Enquiring minds want to know! Perhaps it could be the topic of your next video.

zed

zed is dead

One more thing Cedars,

You never asked me for the information, you demanded it. We are still investigating, much as you did for 3 weeks with no response. But unlike what you did, no one is at risk of being outed because I am making you wait.

Just imagine me striking the same pose as Bo toward you.

zed

jeremiah18:5-10

Zed, Otwo, unconfused, lost

What are the facts?

1- sst was a fader from jws

2- sst was a member of an exjw (apostate) forum

3- sst was conceling 1 and 2

4- someone associated with aawa force-added many people to a fb page without any consent

5- this fb page was not secret as thought

6- sst was forced to confront the truth of 1 and 2

7- sst was dfd

8- aawa failed to close the site in a timely manner despite being informed of the risks

What is conjecture?

1- cedars personally force-added these people

2- cedars condoned the force-adding

3- cedars desired to expose hiding Faders

4- cedars held ultimate authority and chose to do nothing

5- cedars isn't sorry at all and is insensitive

The list could go on.There's a big difference between facts and conjecture. Much of this conjecture can't and won't ever become fact. What is undeniable is that any fader or exjw runs the risk of being exposed or outed, even moreso when they willingly engage on an exjw forum. Sst was faced with confronting what was true but hidden. Sst could have and perhaps did, said the truth, he/she didn't join aawa or their fb page that they were force-added, at which point the elders are left with deciding or judging the truth of that. The issue is why anyone should ever have to defend themselves against such things and how a religion has any authority in this matter and how a person could lose their family and friends over such. Those are the true issues. The facts are what they are and the conjectures are what they are. Your chasing something you can never catch. That's why this seems fruitless and nothing but divisive. In the end sst and others were impacted because they were what they are Faders, and perhaps apostates. A true victim would be an active jw force-added and being outed and dfd, when they did nothing at all in the cyber-world to contribute to it.

wasblind

Sometimes the only way to end a quarrel is to simply draw a line, start again and refuse to go back - or be drawn - over that line.____TIM HOOPER

Yep, After an apology, plead the fifth

In American courts that mean you have the right to hush up

to keep from diggin' your grave. Wit your own tongue

I'd best leave this thread alone . I've said all I can say___Cedars

I warned you about a bad stand . Especially when you ain't packin'

Now didn't I warn you ? But did you listen ?

told you.

OnTheWayOut

Cedars: As I said before... if I just apologise I am criticized for not giving more information; if I give more information I am criticized for being too defensive and therefore unapologetic. It's a catch 22.

I left you alone since your simple apology on page 4. I addressed Marvin and BBXB itself, but not you. I thought maybe you learned your lesson that even if you didn't feel personally responsible, to stop defending yourself. I suggested that, regardless of how you feel, you just take the criticism and leave the conversation if you continued to feel the need to say how you were not personally responsible. Yes, as the ultimately responsible person at BBXB, you might feel you are in a Catch 22.

But you came back on page 10 with more of the same. You hadn't learned your lesson at all. You scream that you fully apologized, but had to add your "but" in again. You had to repeat that you were not personally responsible. You also saw how badly it was going and made sure to offer another name for people to blame.

So I am fully sorry if I cannot leave your half-assed apologies alone without paraphrasing and commenting on how half-assed they are, but I am not personally responsible for the half-assed content of which I comment.

I will still leave you alone if you offer a complete apology without shifting blame, or if you say nothing at all. I don't expect those who were hurt to just drop this, as you still imply that the emails don't exist. But that's not me. Those people are hurt, they might take swings at you for a long time. Do yourself a favor and read them, let it sting, then STFU and take it.

wasblind

As I said before... if I just apologise I am criticized for not giving more information; if I give more information I am criticized for being too defensive and therefore unapologetic. It's a catch 22.

Cedars

After an apology

Pleadin' the fifth don't protect from bein' critisized

But It gives you the choice on what to be critisized about

I'd rather be critisized for things unsaid, than said

People are free to speculate all they want

It's when you open your mouth, you get in trouble

Jus' sayin'

RayPublisher

After the first couple pages this thread became a big circle jerk and a waste of time IMO. It's like doing jury duty to read through it all...

I do hope SST is coping with being DFed- he didn't deserve to be kicked out. After having gone through the kangaroo court myself I can say that it was a huge relief to have the band-aid ripped off and be free of all the WT rules.

The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis

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