The Outing of Faders, and the Epilogue of Sic Semper Tyrannis

by zed is dead 298 Replies latest members private

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Zed, I will speak to you.

  Imagine the following:

  "Elder Smith and Elder Jones claim to have digital evidence. They have printouts from the Internet and they both state that they exactly represent the evidence they have seen with their own eyes."

  "Sst, you can deny that but the evidence is solid enough in my relentless elder training (Stupor laughing, Smith and Jones) and really all we need to hang you. Now all I want from you is a straightforward (lie) statement as to why we should believe you are repentant."

  Sst declines to provide the lies that probably won't get him off the hook since there is no way he can sound sincere and this whop matter is traumatic and draining.

  "Case closed. DF the mofo. NEXT CASE."

  Without actually being there Zed, can you imagine that is pretty close or will you only be satisfied with a secret recording of the JC?
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Damned tablet. That was (Stopped your laughing, Smith and Jones.)
• 

  UnConfused

  Marvin - “Ring of truth” is very Watchtowerisk. I don’t accept something as true because of ringing. I accept something as true based on evidence to that end. Neither my gut feeling nor your gut feeling is something I compare with evidence."

  Bullshit! You've been using "it sounds contrived" in the exact same way someone says it has "the ring of truth".

  Perhaps SST is lying to Zed, perhaps not, but here is how how I add it up.

  But to use your own words I know what Cedars is based on his own body of work and in the case of AAWA it was atrocious. His cover-up was appalling and his apologies were lame and deflecting.

  Rebel8 couldn't attend her brother's wedding because of Cedars, AAWA et al. That shows that active JW's used this mishap to take action against someone "weak" who is already on "slippery ground".

  I can see a body of elder doing the same and even myself doing that 15 years ago. You on the other hand want to question SST & Zed based on how well the WT trains their elders? There are mountains of evidence where elders df people for weak or practially no evidence. I just illustrated that with a threat of DF'ing which happened to me which had NO BASIS IN SCRIPTURE OR WT'ism.

  I'm going back to the fact that you are just a trolling.
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “…can you imagine that is pretty close or will you only be satisfied with a secret recording of the JC?”

  I can’t speak for zed, but I wouldn’t need a recording. I’d be satisfied if elements of the story added up to something a JW could be disfellowshipped for. Watchtower does not train elders to accept what they see on an internet page at face value. In fact, they tell elders just the opposite. They practically beat this into elders.

  In the instance of a JW’s name be found on an anti-Watchtower web site or group, the likely scenario is that prior to forming a judicial committee elders would ask the JW about it to see if the individual knew anything about it. In the case of SST the answer would have been, “No,” and that would have been the truth. Probability is the issue would go no further unless there was something much more solid than a name on an internet web site.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  If I weren't on the tablet, I would put up a picture of a shovel. No need for me to dig the hole when someone digs their own.

  Sorry, I said 'Good day' and after passing the shovel, I can just sit back and laugh at comments about trained elders.
• 

  zed is dead

  Marvin, were you ever even a JW? Have you ever even been in a Judicial Committee meeeting? I noticed on your blog site, that there is no mention of your personal story. I also never saw one in your topic history on JWN.

  Please answer these questions, or I will have to conclude that you know no more about how JW justice works than you do Facebook.

  zed
• 

  UnConfused

  The ole "Cedars must be innocent and SST lying because we know how well trained the Elders are" defense.

  Okie dokie
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “Bullshit! You've been using "it sounds contrived" in the exact same way someone says it has ‘the ring of truth’.”

  No.

  - OnTheWayOut uses “ring of truth” as basis for his opinion.

  - I’ve shared testable reasons for opining potential contrivance (my opinion).

  There’s a big difference between those two processes. A big difference.

  “I can see a body of elder doing the same and even myself doing that 15 years ago. You on the other hand want to question SST & Zed based on how well the WT trains their elders? There are mountains of evidence where elders df people for weak or practially no evidence. I just illustrated that with a threat of DF'ing which happened to me which had NO BASIS IN SCRIPTURE OR WT'ism.”

  Because elders have acted contrary to Watchtower training does not mean this is an instance of that; it only means elders acting contrary to Watchtower training is a possibility.

  I don’t decide the value of a claiming taking form of an accusation based on possibility. You shouldn’t either. No one should.

  “I'm going back to the fact that you are just a trolling.”

  There’s that paint again.

  “But to use your own words I know what Cedars is based on his own body of work and in the case of AAWA it was atrocious. His cover-up was appalling and his apologies were lame and deflecting.”

  I’d be remiss not to point out the perspective you share is entirely understandable. We are all products of our own experience. Though we should all listen and learn what we can from one another, a human tendency is to give weight to what we’ve experienced personally over what others share of their experiences. Hence two rational people can and often do hold disparate views of the same person. I don’t object to your view of Cedars. Though I don’t share your view precisely, I do understand your view and do not object to you holding it as though you are wrong.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  -

  “Marvin, were you ever even a JW?”

  Yes.

  “Have you ever even been in a Judicial Committee meeeting?”

  Yes. Lots of them.

  “Please answer these questions…”

  Done.

  Marvin Shilmer
• 

  still thinking

  "it sounds contrived"

  Marvin...for what purpose do you think someone would do this? What do you think they hope to get out of it?

  Do you honestly think his story is impossible? Why?

  And why are you not putting ANY effort into finding out why it took AAwa SO long to remove the offending fb page. THAT seemed odd to me and somewhat 'contrived'. They were adamant about it...regardless of how people kept warning them and warning them that this could harm people.

  Why aren't you putting SOME energy into questioning their motives. AAwas actions (or lack of actions) sound contrived to me. Why are you focussing on disproving the victims claims and not the offenders? When the offender keeps saying 'I'm sorry, but it wasn't MY fault'. Ulitimately it IS his fault, because HE was the leader of that organisation, and lack of leadership CAUSED this problem. Good leaders LEAD. Obviously people associated with that organisation felt they could do whatever they liked...which to me showed NO LEADERSHIP. Therefore...the Leader is at fault and responsible for the problems that arose because of lack of leadership.