Beth, since you're in the psychiatry field, here's a lighthearted case of schizoid paranoia and double personality ;) I hope you enjoy .....
Washtower vs Apostates (shameless plug)
Nice to see somebody is able to start a topic.
Must be some kind of supernatural force preventing me from doing the same!
Edenone *****Jeremiah 25:29... However it is translated in the most convenientway that the Hebrew text allows*******
Exactly, most convenient for the WBTS in their EISEGESIS in trepation , after all if they can't prove their 607-1914 chronology to be correct they have no foundation to base their authority as THE ONLY CHANNEL that was approved to do the seperation work of the wheat and weeds, and just makes them another sincere religion at best and a false prophet at worst.
Eden to ABibleStudent: I wouldn't say anything except... if one wants to go, he's free to go anywhere. If he finds salvation elsewhere, please come back and let me know. A grown up person will do whatever he wants. Why stop him/her?
Hi Eden, You have a very lenient attitude for a JW, which I like. Too bad the GB doesn't feel the way that you do and actively promotes that JWs must shun JWs and avoid "Worldly People" to JWs.
Although I was never a JW but did participate in WTBTS' indoctrination studies (i.e., "Bible studies") with an elder and a brother at the insistance of a former friend, who is a drone (i.e., "Spiritually Strong") JW, I can definately say that I noticed immediately that there was something strange about all JWs who I've met. After reading Steve Hassan's book "Combatting Cult Mind Control", I realized that Steve Hassan knew what he was writing about because everything that he wrote about I noticed in JWs who I met. Steve Hassan's books are not salvation, but I recommend that you read them if you want to be able to ever recognize salvation when it hits you in the face. Most drone JWs are too brain dead to recognize anything but what the WTBTS tells them to embrace.
So what keeps you in the WTBTS? Is it family, friends, riveting dramas at the DC's, a love of Jesus Christ, etc.? If you feel it is love of Jesus Christ, then you will find more unconditional love on JWN from Christians and theists than in all the KH's in the world.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Eden, what a beautiful thought/name. I remember thinking how nice it would be walking on the beach butt naked in the sunshine in the new world. That was my message when I was a JW. But lie after lie,lie... makes me feel ashamed that I bought into it. WT. The Bible does have some Divine revelation in it, but as a whole book, too many contradictions. Woe to those men who messed it up. Nevertheless a big WELCOME!! Insoftr4
Try chrome it worked for me, or maybe firefox
I look forward to your contributions
and Welcome to the board
Eden, welcome! I read some of your article on the two kings, especially Dan. 11:40-45, which interests me personally.
First point, Dan. 10-12 covers a period from Cyrus to the resurrection (Dan. 10:1; Dan. 12:2, 13). How is it that you get bogged down with the Seleucids and Ptolemies? Or do you, like most modern scholars, view Daniel as ex eventu, i.e., written after the fact?
Second point, concerning the final versus of chapter 11, these cannot refer to Antiochus IV Epiphanes. E.g., a footnote in the The New Berkeley Bible says: In Antiochus' day Moab longer existed. Antiochus made no African invasions beyond Egypt and he died at Tabae, Persia. Either the writer of the book of Daniel lied, or there is another explanation. You believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, so then the latter must apply.
Some internal evidence from the book itself, indicates that the outcome of most of the visions would lie in the future (cf. Dan. 2:28; 10:14, etc.).
While it's true that the moabites disappear from history records around the Persian empire, the territory that they occupied continued to be known by its biblical name ("Moab") long time after their demise. For example, the fortress built in that area by the christian crusaders to defend the eastern border of the Kingdom of Jerusalem was known as the "Krak des Moabites". Nevertheless, it's plausible that they still existed as people (though in rapid decline) at the time of the writing of the prophecy, but not at the time of its fulfillment, since, by then, arabs had taken over the territory.
No, I don't agree with those who claim that Daniel was written after the facts. I belive Daniel is genuine prophecy.
Regarding the portion of Daniel 11:40-44, as I state in my article, I believe they are a RECAPITULATION of prophetic events already described in the prophecy earlier, focusing on slightly different aspects. 11:45 I apply to Antiochus VII Sidetes, not Antiochus IV Epiphanes. The prophecy covers more than one king, although Antiochus IV Epiphanes seems to be one of the key elements of the prophecy.
edenOne - welcome
your research sounds interesting and i hope to take a look at your webpages soon.
Eden, thanks for the explanation. I, again, would be looking for an exact historical fit. Interesting theory of the recapitulation, but you will have a problem proving that from the text. Most view it as a continuous thread.
E.g., in Dan. 11:40 the eschatological marker “[the] end time” is mentioned. Another crops up at Dan. 12:1 “and during that time.” Some view this end as the end of the Jewish system of worship, i.e., 70 CE, but then we still have Michael and the resurrection to contend with.
How would you justify a chronological jump from the war between the Ptolemies and Seleucids and “time of [the] end”?