Why do people proudly say they belong to Jesus ?

by mP 91 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  mP

  TEC:

  Maybe they aren't proudly saying it, mP. Maybe they are humbly saying it... as in not wanting to deny Him, simply because some people will accuse them of being proud or arrogant or whatever. Peace to you, tammy

  mP:

  One can be humble and proud, they are describing different personal traits and qualities, they are not exclusive.

  Tammy:

  As for calling oneself a slave or a servant - why is this shameful? He served (and still does serve) us as well.

  mP:

  Because it trivialises true slavery and the evils in the past, by pretending to be a slave when we all live relatively comfortable lives. It also corrupts the true meaning of the word a problem that xians have in many other cases. The word refers to a hard existance involving violence, pain, and sorrow where one serves under fear of death and violence. Most xians in our western world hardly share this and its dishonest to do so, because xians in our world are definitively not slaves. Most xians hardly spend any time working for jesus in any manner. Slavery in the past old world and time was not a part time vocation it was 24/7/365. Even if you do for example some charitable work here and there, thats not full time. Im not going to comment about believing, but for the puroses of this discussion, i will play along. Jesus did not serve us, if you believe he died for our sins, he gave us a gift. He did it out of his own freewill not because someone forced him. His earthly life was not that of a slave. So lets be accurate and faithful to the meaning of the word.
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  mP

  Tammy:

  Yes, and in line w the title of the thread, proud of your slavery.

  I've never used the word 'slave', other than understanding it as Paul explained it. The word does not carry the same connotation as many apply to it. Someone who belongs to Christ is FREE... slave implies a lack of freedom, but this is not the case.

  Proud... no. Grateful to be able to serve even in the tiniest way... yes.

  Peace,

  ,mP:
  And thats the problem, xians have taken a word and given it a completely differently meaning. Repeating the same when buying goods in the shop is considered dishonest and corrupted.
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  mP

  Arb:

  "Romans 8:17

  17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

  How do we qualify to share as "joint-heir-status", the adopted child will eventually become the physical child through Christ's leadership and guidance in the Christian's life.

  MP:

  Paul didnt write Romans and secondly Paul didnot know Jesus. No virgin birth, no earthyly mnistry, no mention about his death in Jerusalem even though Paul says that he visited Cephas ( wasnt he renamed to Peter ) and James when he passed thru etc. Paul never mentions Mary, Jospeh, nazareth, bethelehm and so on. Paul is talking about someone copletely different.
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  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  Mp, the burden of proof is on you to discredit what almost "Two Thousand Church Years" have accepted, that Paul wrote Romans. Now, what new evidence do you present to back up this rather giant claim? You said "Paul did not write the book of Romans", so please do inform who did and what you base your premise and conclusion on?

  Can you prove Paul did not know Jesus, his meeting Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus, Holy Spirit inspiriation to preach in some cities, but to avoid others, tells me he did know Jesus Christ from the "spirit realm".

  To accept your arguments, I can't put faith in what you say, I need evidence Jesus was not born of a "virgin". I need evidence God does not exist, can you prove of "double negative" too?
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  designs

  You know Romans is phony because it describes a Judaism that did not exist...the ultimate strawman.
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  tec

  Tammy, did you catch in Romans how a Christian is able to acheive the status of "joint-heir", a position the adopted child typically did not share in ancient Jewish customs. Abraham's son to receive everything was Isaac. Those following our Master Jesus Christ, we will become something more elevated, receiving a greater share of Christ's riches as long as we demonstrate the "Spirit" is alive in our lives and if we do "suffer like Christ did", Christians have suffered many types of exquisite deaths in history for their obedience to Christ.

  Thanks for that. I had not considered it in that way.

  Yes, the first resurrection, ruling with Christ as kings and priests for a thousand years. Being caught up in the sky with Him when He returns; changed to become like Him.

  Because it trivialises true slavery and the evils in the past, by pretending to be a slave when we all live relatively comfortable lives. It also corrupts the true meaning of the word a problem that xians have in many other cases. The word refers to a hard existance involving violence, pain, and sorrow where one serves under fear of death and violence. Most xians in our western world hardly share this and its dishonest to do so, because xians in our world are definitively not slaves. Most xians hardly spend any time working for jesus in any manner. Slavery in the past old world and time was not a part time vocation it was 24/7/365. Even if you do for example some charitable work here and there, thats not full time.

  Im not going to comment about believing, but for the puroses of this discussion, i will play along. Jesus did not serve us, if you believe he died for our sins, he gave us a gift. He did it out of his own freewill not because someone forced him. His earthly life was not that of a slave.

  So lets be accurate and faithful to the meaning of the word.

  People use the word slave in many contexts. Slaving for a boss. Slave to the grind (see how I got a Skid Row reference in here). Slave as someone who is forcibly owned by another. But in the past, someone could sell themselves in slavery to pay off their own debts, or simply to live when they might otherwise starve and die. (or they could sell a member of their household too... not necessarily as noble as the first) So it could have been voluntary, and a means to live for someone who might otherwise have died or perhaps gone to prison for their debts. (Slaves who ran to another Israelite were to be given shelter, and were NOT to be returned to their master. That is a law that gets overlooked.) Those who call themselves a slave or servant of... are not forced into such. It is their own choosing. No one (that i know of) means it to be trivializing of the pain of those who suffered under enslavement. Peace to you, tammy
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  EntirelyPossible

  Then stop trying to get me to answer an affirmative to something that I do not agree with, lol. Asking a question in different ways does not get different answers, unless someone did not truly understand the question.

  To be fair, asking Christians the same question in different ways will yield wildly different answers, depending on the questioner, the question, the Christian and whether or not they are keen on sensing that they are making illogical statements.
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  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  @design's is that of your own origin or something you read on "JesusNeverExisted.com"? We get plenty of darts thrown our way, but they are missing the "content" and orignality mark". Let's get some real evidence without qouting Wiki or "He-Man-Christian-Haters.com".
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  ÁrbolesdeArabia

  I enjoyed reading Dr. Paul L. Maier's fiction books dealing with real places in the Middle East. Dr. Maier is considered one of the most respected

  Bible land and Middle Eastern historians in his field. "Ancient Near East; Ancient Greece; Ancient Rome; Christianity and the Roman Empire; Reformation Era" My friend went on a "Middle Eastern Cruise" following the trails of one of St. Paul's missionary voyages. Greece, Turkey, and Isreal, part of their voyage in September was cancelled because of Syria, and other Middle Eastern uprisings.

  Dr. Maier's faith is stronger now, than when he first started in his field, he is not a young man but has the energy most men his age long for.

  "Topography also provides interesting traces of the supernatural dimension in Jesus' ministry. Bethany, where he raised Lazarus from the dead, according to John II, is still called "Betanya" by Israelis. But to the majority Arab population of that Jerusalem suburb, the name of the town is El-Lazariyeh, "the place of Lazarus." That name change was known as far back as Eusebius (church historian, A.D. ca 260-339), and exactly what one would expect if indeed Bethany had witnessed so great a miracle as the dead being raised.

  A similar instance is a southwestern suburb of Damascus. To this day, that location at the edge of the Syrian capital is named Deraya, "The Vision" in Arabic, because of what happened to Saul (the future St. Paul) on the Damascus Road."
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  designs

  AA- those are my own thoughts from studying Judaism, I have never heard of the websites you listed.