by unstopableravens 546 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
And believers are accused of baseless claims?
If a god or god(s) made the earth in its evolutionary processes, then it doesn't care about humanity or all other living species living past and present.
Therefore...
Wha? If God made the earth using evolutionary processes, then why does one have to automatically assume that it means He doesn't care?
Unstopableravens - I love that name. What does it mean? Sorry I've not read all of this thread - had a really hard day at work. I understand that it is easy to think that someone stops believing because of the 'pendulum effect' - which means someone has had a bad experience of religion so they swing in the opposite direction. I understand that is a very human response but that is not what happeneed to me.
First we found Crisis of Conscience at the libraray so we left the JWs and became Christians. Then we found books on evolution - I particularly remember pictures of Neaderthal skulls with the huge eye ridges. The JWs said only bits of bone and teeth had been found - not true. Sorry I can't give you the book details because it was a library book. We were pioneers so we had no money to buy books. So we became agnostic and eventually, after seeing all the evidence for evolution, we became atheist.
Not a knee-jerk reaction to religion, that's what I am trying to say. It was more of a, let's look in the library and see what we can find. We, my late husband and I, even prayed first - then we went to the library and found COC. That's how it happened UR. Thanks for caring about me, I appreciate it.
This is puzzling. If Biologos affirm evolution and common descent how can they reject something they call "Darwinism"?
The same way some evolutionary biologists do.
I believe it has to do with "natural selection" and "survival of the fittest" as being the PRIME driving force of evolution, which some at biologos disagree with.
God may well have used a process that we call "evolution", there is no reason to thing that an ominopotent God would NOT equip His creation with the ability to adapt and evolve to it's environment.
new chapter you have good points i will def look into this and get with you. i def understand why you feel as you do! but yeah i will look at everything that was.brought up.thanks for the breakdown
That's great. I'll be looking forward to what you come up with. I remember when I believed, these things used to really bother me. The way I dealt with them is I tried not to dwell on them. But it didn't make them go away. They were always there, and something to make my stomach tighten up when they came up. I would also jump an any explanation, it didn't matter, to make it better. It was as though the explanation innoculated me from the full force of the account. But you know what? When I started to break down the explanations and excuses, I realized they simply distracted me. They gave me a way to say, "Oh, I see". And yet the explanations themselves were lacking.
For instance. I was once told that Lot offering his daughters to a violent crowd was better in God's eyes because the sex would be more 'natural'. That didn't sit well. I was also told that the custom of hospitality meant that you protected your guest to your own injury. Okayeeee. This crowd wanted sex with men. Why didn't Lot offer himself instead of his young daughters? But it eased things, or distracted things for the moment, but then I started doing Point-of-View exercises. I called this meditation. I would recreate the scene from the viewpoint of the different characters, imagine the details, the sounds, the smells. I'm a writer, so I do this a lot anyway, but I started to do it in a more focused way with the bible. WTF? I imagined my father offering me to a violent mob. I imagined my home, friends, land being destroyed. I imagined my god turning my mother into salt for looking back. And then I thought, would my reaction to this really be to get my father drunk and have sex with him? Really? Even taking away the fact that he was my father, this man had just offered me to a crowd to 'do with as they pleased!" I had just lost my mother.
No. This didn't happen, and a truly sick mind made it up. And it takes an enforced sickness on the mind to accept it.
I thought about being a young woman captured by the Israelites. These people had just killed my parents, my friends, my siblings, aunts, uncles. Took my land, and then took me. Then I'm supposed to marry one of these monsters? People told me it was loving and merciful and a protection for these young women, because where would they go? And they were to be treated as wives, not slaves! But again, distraction tactic. They were to trim their nails and hair and were allowed one month to grieve the loss of everything and everyone. Where could they go? Nowhere. So perhaps these marriage arrangements didn't involve violence. Perhaps they came with perks. But there was no choice and I can see it as nothing more than serial rape. The Israelites had taken everything from these women, and we are told today to see it as merciful. I'd rather have died in the battle than live the rest of my life on these terms. That would have been merciful.
There are some Christians that are not literal bible believers. They handle it by simply dismissing it. For those that are literal bible believers, we almost always see subjugation of women, because this god was all about that. That's just the women issues. Dont' get me started on the rest.
"...And then I thought, would my reaction to this really be to get my father drunk and have sex with him? Really? Even taking away the fact that he was my father, this man had just offered me to a crowd to 'do with as they pleased!" I had just lost my mother.
No. This didn't happen, and a truly sick mind made it up. And it takes an enforced sickness on the mind to accept it...." New Chapter, above.
I am certain that the REAL story behind this - if "Lot" actually DID exist, by the way - is that Lot sexually molested his daughters and got THEM pregnant - and then blamed the WHOLE crime/sin on THEM - "they got me drunk; they seduced me, boo hoo hoo..."
Talk to ANY special-victims' advocate or social worker [leave out the fact that you're talking about "Lot"] regarding the details of this case, and see what sort of response they give.
While you're at it, look up historical middle-eastern customs regarding the treatment of women...
then why does one have to automatically assume that it means He doesn't care?
Well if there's nothing to show of its presence thats why.
Millions of years of living and dieng by all living species should make that obvoius.
We are then still evolving bioorganisms left to evolve and procreate on are own.
Here's something to think about, what if there came a time that the earth was gong to be hit again by another huge asteroid like it did
65 million years ago, and it was realized that it would probably invoke the extinction of all living species on the planet upon impact as it did previously,
would that change your perception of god or your relationship with god ...... Christ Alone ?
xanthippie -my name is because im a diehard ravens fan and the ravens are unstoppable well sorta. sounds like you went through alot.
Unless of course one is personally avowed to bask in the power and glory of that god. As its known many men throughout human history have
endeavored themselves with that intent in mind. ie. the men behind the Watchtower Corporation
How about it Christ ?
Are you a (God) player yourself ?
new chapter you can count on it i will look it all up.
