by palmtree67 699 Replies latest jw friends
I agree Cofty. I don't feel any anger about what other people believe, nor any contempt. It's a short life, make what you can of it. But I get frustrated being lumped into a profile -- the profile of angry arrogant atheists. I don't know any angry ones, and I know quite a few atheists. Mostly really live and let live types.
Now if you wanted to call me cranky, well sometimes that's true!
Data - great post. I feel the same.
Peace,
tammy
Hortensia, TS was being 'satirical'. He doesn't really think that about atheists. He was playing the stereotype :)
Peace,
tammy
A person tells you that you're nuts or whatever and that it didn't happen because they can't relate to such an experience? - Loz
But some of us can.
I wasn't a nominal believer. I never bought into the more tacky versions of signs and visions but I would happily have died rather than deny my faith in god and could point to an abundance of evidence of his blessing. I "knew" that I was adopted as a son of god and I lived in constant commune with god and Jesus.
It was all subjective. The process of discovering that and admitting it was more difficult than leaving the Watchtower and losing my family and friends.
Its a mistake to think we don't get it.
Palm, I do think that we tend to see a poster we normally disagree with, and look for something to disagree with. I think we have to make a point of reminding ourselves to see each thread on its own merit, and not give in to that preconceived bias. I have seen posters doing just this these past few days, so I am thinking that many DO want a truce.
Peace,
tammy
I understand your frustration too but imagine if you will that you experienced something exceptional, something spiritual? You know you're compus mentus, so you know it's legit, you can't deny it, it would make you a liar. A person tells you that you're nuts or whatever and that it didn't happen because they can't relate to such an experience? What a dichotomy.
Thank you, Loz, that's a good point.
I can only speak for myself when I have experienced such things. To me, they are very PERSONAL. I don't discuss them with random people. I only discuss them with people with I trust. And if they don't percieve the experience as exceptionally as I do, I don't get angry with them or require them to accept my experience as real - because the experience was still....PERSONAL.
I don't feel I have to "convert" anyone to my personal experience.
Wow Cofty that's a surprise. When you say you 'knew' was that based on something spiritual that happened to you?
Loz x
I don't feel I have to "convert" anyone to my personal experience.
Speaking personally, as you did, I also don't feel that I have to convert anyone. I actually know that i cannot convert someone. That is not within my power. I can only bear witness to the one who CAN.
So if I share something, it is because it might
a) help 'build someone else up' (in their faith)
b) help someone to see something in a different light or consider something from another angle (because that always helped me)
c) simply serve as a witness to Christ for those who want to hear and are seeking Him
What people do with that is up to them, and I would not be angry with anyone for not accepting it. So if that is what some get annoyed about, please understand that some of us are just sharing, without any expectation of what anyone does with it. Because there are some who do want to hear such things. It is not meant to be provocative to those who would disagree.
Peace,
tammy
I see that Palm, yes. I agree it's personal too. Unfortunately in the WTBS it's not allowed to be that way. I remember pleading to partake privately and of course that wasn't allowed. I didn't want it to be open information for all to discuss. Many friends that I have known for years now have no idea about this. Currently I personally don't attempt to convert anyone, nor would I. It requires a mention to justify my belief in god very often though, and that's when a lot of people want to suggest I'm nuts or a liar, but denying it isn't an option for me. It's been too important in my life experience.
But if I detect that someone is a believer and wants to share about it then I'm happy to have an interchange of encouragement, (pardon the expression). I don't really think anymore that I present a very good model of a Christian, but still, I can't deny what's happened to me. The fact that I divorced, had a bit of a breakdown from the stress of the divorce, got disfellowshipped etc, prompted people, esp the elders, to suggest I might deny my experience, as if I could only claim it if I was perfect. I couldn't possibly, not ever. And I can't now whatever some atheists decide to throw. Whatever else, it's undeniable.
Loz x
please understand that some of us are just sharing, without any expectation of what anyone does with it.
Well, if that were true, there would be no arguments on here, though, correct?
Share.
And then leave it be.
When a non-believer shares a scientific paper, or whatever.....they EXPECT and welcome disagreement. They want to learn something they never knew, but it has to have PROOF.
When a beleiver shares their experience, if they don't expect acceptance (as you say), then disagreement will not bother them.
So.....share and move on!
I think the thing I dont' understand is that so many believers claim their experience is PERSONAL and then they share it on an open forum. Which is fine, but if you choose to do so, you can't really expect that everyone is going to accept your experience - because it is PERSONAL and your proof is PERSONAL to you.
I say, I don't understand it, because as I said before and I remind you now, I don't share those kind of personal experiences with random people.
