Faith... and Trust: The Same Things? (page 39)

EntirelyPossible

Stop trying to "correct" me... because you're sounding silly, in light of what is true about this issue.

Stop it, NC, with your facts and knowledge and experience.

AGuest

Maybe you believe as you do, Aguest, because your reading comprehension is low. Is that okay for me to say?

Of course it's okay for you to say, dear NC (again, peace to you!). It's not accurate... but it's absolutely okay for you to say. I mean, who am I to tell you what is okay for you to say? And you've said worse, way worse, IMHO. So to say this is... well, to put it mildly... mild.

you are trying to re-define stumbling into a narrow definition to suit your need to be right.

Re-define? No. Help you see that there is more than one definition, more than 2 or 3... and one of them fits what I'm communicating to you? Yes.

I never said it was.

Not sure what you mean here...

Why are you getting so defensive?

Getting defensive? Where?? When?? How?? I'm not being defensive - I'm being... wait for it... honest. Something I truly wish you would allow yourself to lear... nevermind.

To be fair, the made up stuff you guys post, saying anything to be right, making stuff up... it just isn't worth expending the brain power to refute it all.

Yet, you continue to try, I have to say. I mean, since we're being fair and all...

Besides, you do a good job refuting it yourself. I mean, after Jesus and his dad couldn't even be bothered to step up and tell me what my shirt pattern was, they have so little credibility.

Ah, yes, that again. Answered. Answer referred to twice since. Mayhaps reading is an issue with you, as well?

Movin' on...

A slave of Christ,

SA

NewChapter

And you've said worse, way worse, IMHO. So to say this is... well, to put it mildly... mild.

You'll have to show me where this is true, because I believe that it is false.

AGuest

to suggest that those that don't believe as you do can't read properly, is worse than just disrespecting their beliefs.

I never suggested that, dear NC (again, peace to you). There are those who DO believe as I do... who are uneducated and poor readers... those who believe as I do who are excellent readers but uneducated... those who believe as I do who are educated yet poor readers... those who believe as I do who are educated and excellent readers... and the same applies for those who don't believe as I do: educated, uneducated, excellent readers, not so excellent readers... or some combination of that.

In fact, the same things that make JW's believe as they do are the things that make you and others believe as you do.

To your way of thinking, perhaps. I think they would disagree with you even more vehemently than I would, though. I PROMISE you if you asked whether holy spirit or, even more, the Christ, the Holy Spirit, was behind their belief... and moving them to speak... they would walk away from you as if you had leprosy... without providing an answer one way or the other. And you know it. Whether they're still fully in... or on their way out. Yes, there would be the exception... but it would truly BE the exception. And you know that, too. If you know Jehovah's Witnesses like you wish folks here to believe you do, I mean.

Stop it, NC, with your facts and knowledge and experience.

Oh, goodness gracious, please stop pandering. Of almost all of the folks here, it just doesn't become YOU. Even YOU know the facts on this matter. Stating inaccuracies for the sake of schmoozing up to dear NC's "intelligence" (and I don't deny that she is intelligent - that isn't the subject of this discussion, though) is beneath YOUR intelligence. Stop... please... and at least stick to truth (as to JWs in general, NOT the exceptions... and the WTBTS), even if you don't agree with my beliefs.

A slave of Christ,

SA

AGuest

You'll have to show me where this is true,

Actually... I don't (again, peace to you!). I only need to know what you've stated to me... or as/to about me... and how I perceive such. And I believe it to be worse. Much worse, as I stated.

because I believe that it is false.

And you're entitled to that belief... while I'm entitled to disagree with it. I mean, it's not like there's a law that says we have to accept what another believes, is there? If there is then we're both criminals.

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA

NewChapter

I just think when you accuse me of things, it is fair for me to be able to ask for evidence.

EntirelyPossible

Re-define? No. Help you see that there is more than one definition, more than 2 or 3... and one of them fits what I'm communicating to you? Yes.

Not really, but whatever. Doesn't matter. Jesus flying into people and knocking them down is so ludicrous I don't think I need to say anything more about it.

Ah, yes, that again. Answered. Answer referred to twice since. Mayhaps reading is an issue with you, as well?

Not really. Interesting that you go for the insults, though. I do wonder why Christians, supposedly the loving people, go for the insults and violence and threats when their ridiculous ideas are exposed....

tec

When it comes to their religion and what their religion teaches, people tend to have poor reading and/or reading comprehension skills. (especially in a high control religion such as the wts) Of course they do. How many times did some of us read something in the bible while we were looking through the glasses of the WTS... and think oh yes, so true... and then later, look again, and say... "WHAT was I thinking?" I don't remember ever reading that before, or reading it in that way before... ? How many of us never bothered to do the research and look up the supposed supporting scriptures or the 'quotes' mined from elsewhere?

The WTS does all the thinking for its adherents. It needs to... or those adherents are going to start waking up. Perhaps not leave (due to other reasons), but wake up or at least know that something is wrong.

Even on this forum, people get lazy and skim through posts and misunderstand. Maybe because they're not interested; maybe because they aren't interested in looking at something in any other way than they have already decided is correct.

Now, I never joined, so I can't say anything much as to the witnesses other than what I have read on this forum. Just never got close enough to learn more than that. But it has seemed to me, based on the articles and others' testimony about their experiences, that education is not held to much importance... and higher education is certainly frowned upon. (except perhaps those who they need to serve them... like lawyers and such)

Peace,

tammy

NewChapter

Now, I never joined, so I can't say anything much as to the witnesses other than what I have read on this forum. Just never got close enough to learn more than that. But it has seemed to me, based on the articles and others' testimony about their experiences, that education is not held to much importance... and higher education is certainly frowned upon. (except perhaps those who they need to serve them... like lawyers and such)

Well, no, I guess you never joined. I was in 3 different congregations in a 50 mile radius---from deep rural---to inner city---to the suburbs. I found that they often ignored the advice about higher education. I also found that education beyond the 8th grade WAS NOT held in contempt. The young JW's I knew all graduated from high school---some had spent their last two years of HS in college so when they graduated they had college credits and an HS diploma. I never heard of is said, including the literature, that would consider education beyond 8th grade as a waste of time. Now I know about some irresponsible parents that did not value education, but they weren't really getting that from the meetings. I know this because I was always buying graduation gifts and going to graduation parties.

Other kids attended vocational school while going to HS, so they learned a skill. I won't pretend there was no push back, but I saw many young people just shrugging it off and going to college anyway.

But that's not really the issue, because we know JW's are encouraged not to go far beyond HS, but they are encouraged to finish HS---which is 12 grades, not 8.

Maybe it is the area I live in. Yet I met a lot of people, and grade 12 and a high school diploma seemed to be pretty consistent. It was odd when one didn't reach that goal.

We are talking about the reading comprehension of those that don't agree with us. Now I will use the same reasoning with you. I think you have a reading comprehension problem, because when you read the bible, science, history you come to the wrong conclusion, and it is right there in front of you. I have been told that it is okay to say that. I don't think it is, because I think it is okay to attack ideas and not people. I don't necessarily think it is your reading comprehension that leads you to a different conclusion, I think it is your bias. So I'm not going to attack your intelligence, nor make up stories about people that do tend to finish highschool.

AGuest

I just think when you accuse me of things, it is fair for me to be able to ask for evidence.

More dishonesty (peace... truly... as I am not trying to insult you but only to get you to BE honest... about this and some other things, if you possibly can)? You are attempting to paint a situation where you've been falsely accused by asking for evidence NOT because you believe there isn't any (you know there is), but because you don't think I will present it (not that I cannot). Maybe you're right. Maybe you're not. Depends on how the wind blows tonight. Right now, you are right... because I'm not feeling petty enough to go make a search so as to "prove" anything on the matter. I don't have to. I know it's true... YOU know it's true... as to do most here. Besides, anyone one can do that just as well as I can, including you.

So, for now... no. I have no problem leaving it hang... and letting folks think what they will. Because, with a few exceptions, I trust THEIR honesty.

Again, peace to you.

A slave of Christ,

SA

Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

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