Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

by AGuest 452 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    To the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... may you all have peace!

    In a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in. In response to one comment that "One can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have TRUST" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west). That trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things."

    Those who have faith also have trust in such things... that the sun will rise, the moon won't collide with the earth (well, at least not in the very near future), that the tide will stop at the shore (save for the sundry hurrican/tsumani), that spring will come... and temperatures are hotting in summer and colder in winter, etc. (please for those who wish to comment that there are more "natural" things to trust is, notice I included "etc." - there simply isn't enough room to list ALL that can be trusted in nature...).

    What struck me, though, is the realization that some equate faith with "trust"... when that might not be an accurate equation. For example, as I commented the dear one, if one IS equating faith with "trust", then it is true that some don't have their faith (trust) in God/Christ... or perhaps any other... man OR spirit... or even idol... but they DO have their faith (trust) in SOMETHING.

    Faith, however, is not simply "trust". By way of example, I offer that I trust my husband, my children, my friends and other loved one. I trust that my puppies will do many of the same things over... and over... and over........... and over again (because they really are creatures of habit). I can "bank" (trust, indeed "put faith in", as some understand that term) some of the things they [will] do. I don't have my faith IN them... because that's not really what faith is about, if we truly want understand what faith is... accurately.

    Faith... is "the assured expectation of thing hoped for (so, yes, one CAN "trust" that it will occur, but there's more to it than that)... the evident demonstration of reality... though NOT beheld ."

    Faith, then, is believing in something/someone one CAN'T see... with one's eyes (of flesh).

    Now, I can see my husband, children, friends, puppies... the sun... the moon, the tide... nature... etc. I know those can be trusted because of what I've seen... with my own physical eyes (or, were I physically blind, what others tell me they see with their physical eyes). Faith, though, goes beyond that: it is trusting that one will (without a doubt) receive what one hopes for, based the evidence one receives... which evidence demonstrates reality... even though one did not see that evidence with one's physical eyes. In other words, one was given some other manner of evidence: a voice, a vision, a dream, a miracle related to something else that tells such one that the thing they hope for will occur.

    This is what faith is... and why I have my faith in God: because of my faith in CHRIST... who has repeatedly demonstrated to ME that his word is bond, can be trusted... and so what he tells/shows me IS true. That what I hear/see from him is not [always] done with my physical ears/eyes is irrelevant: the evidence is still REAL... and so demonstrative of the REALITY. And so I CAN believe... know... and thus have an assured expectation that the thing I "hope" for... anything I hope for in regard to him... WILL occur. For example, something he tells me that others might find hard to receive... indeed, absolutely DON'T believe... WON'T believe... CAN'T believe. Because it just doesn't seem plausible knowing what we (them AND I)do as to this world. Yet, if every time someone told you something that seemed unbelievable... but everytime gave you evidence that it was true... at some point you would come to realize that even what that one told as to the future... would be true, too. That you can assuredly expect it to be... because everything else he has told you has been. Even though you haven't yet SEEN that which you expect. Even if no one you know personally has seen it. Even if there are others, many other... most, even... who say it WON'T. Your faith is IN him... and so IN what he says [to you].

    A thing that many don't understand, however, is that, yes, God, Christ... and we, the Body of Christ... would LOVE for ALL of mankind to put their faith [in] Him/His Son... because of what WE know He/that Son says - not just TO us... but perhaps in certain "writings". But the reality is that faith is not a possession of all men; all men simply cannot bring themselves... allow themselves... to believe anything beyond what their physical eyes... or someone else's physical eyes... tell them. Notice, I stated what their eyes TELL them. This is because they LISTEN... with their EYES - those of their physical body... than with the EARS... and certainly not with their spiritual ears. The physical eyes, though, "talk" VERY much. SO much, that for most the voice of the Fine Shepherd is drowned out.

    I ask you: think about all your eyes "tell" you - just look around: your eyes are "telling" you about everything they see... and that's a LOT, isn't it? The words on the computer screen. The color of the walls. What others are doing. Etc. But because we're so busy listening with our EYES... to what THEY are "saying" to us... we fail to hear... with our EARS. Indeed, I would wager that, if you are a man, on many occasions you've been called (by a woman - LOL! - perhaps a child)... and yet, you couldn't hear their call... because of what you were hearing... with your eyes! For example, while watching TV... and so you "couldn't/didn't" HEAR her. Why? Because your EYES are "talking" to you ("OHhhh! He just got sacked! Did you SEE that??!!"... or "They comin' around the last stretch and Car No. 32 just inched forward... wait... wait... here comes No. 44!! OMG, he just took the lead!! The crowd is on its feet!"). For women, the "voice" of the eyes tend to say things like, "Oh, that's out of place... or, that doesn't look 'right'... or oh, look at that dirt/dress/pair of shoes, there... oh, he shouldn't have worn that... oh, she's gained/lost weight... oh, what is UP with her hair/makeup/saddlebags... oh, I don't like that color... oh, I LOVE that color... oh, I need/want that new..." and things like that. (Of course, these things are interchangeable - men shop/take note of others' appearance and women watch sports, etc. - and the list is by no means complete as to what our eyes "say"). The point is, though, that their EYES are talking... and that is what they're LISTENING to.

    Rather... than listening to the Christ. Because his voice speaks in a low-tone, dear ones (Proverbs 8:4-9); he's not loud or boisterous and so neither is his voice. He won't raise it above the "din"... WE must turn down the "volume" on the OTHER stuff.

    That's why religion has so much "stuff": they want their members to LISTEN... pay attention... by means of what they SEE - elaborate churches, altars, robes, images, icons... decorative halls... uber-clean facilities... All of this appeals to the EYES. And so if you can speak to people's EYES... you can... yes... HYPNOTIZE them... into a sleep... and thereafter get them to listen to... and follow YOUR words! Isn't that the basis of hypnotism?

    When you turn off the visual "noise", though... oh, what you can hear!!

    This world is designed to stimulate us visually. Because we are yet fleshly... and the visual appeals... to the FLESH! But those who belong to Christ were admonish to walk NOT by sight... but by FAITH. Because our EYE(S) can be "wicked". Not always, of course, but they can cause us to crave things we don't even need, even cause some to takes steps to get those things even at harm to a brother, let alone just another fellowman! And certainly they can get in the way of our hearing. If our eye is simple, though...

    You might recall who Christ told Thomas would be "happy" - those who see and then believe? No, it was those who believed... yet did NOT see! Why? Because the latter would be walking... by FAITH... and not by sight!

    Is faith easy? No, it isn't, unfortunately... because we are yet flesh... flesh that belongs to THIS world... and so the desires of the flesh, which include the desires of the eyes... originate with THIS world. And the "ruler" of this world knows this. Remember, his own beauty was of such importance to him... that he turned his face away from the One he should have kept his gaze upon... so as to gaze at himself. Because he was and is quite stunning in appearance! (Ezekiel 28:13-17). As a result, he did not STAND FAST in the Truth [he did not stand fast in Christ, who IS the Truth]... and so became the "father" of the lie.

    Eve's downfall was her eyes: she kept looking at the fruit of the Tree (of the Knowledge of Good AND Bad)... and so SAW that it was "something to be longed for"... something "to be desired." (Genesis 3:6) Had she kept her eye simple... she would not have been able to be deceived, at least, not by means of that tack. But the Adversary knew what she wanted... because he saw what she kept LOOKING at... and what was manifested in her as a result... because of what kept "SPEAKING" to her: her EYES. And so he just used what SHE showed to be a source of weakness for her - in short, he simply exploited HER weakness and desire! (James 1:14, 15)

    If we understand this, though, how our EYES "talk" to us... that THEIR "voice" can not only drown out Christ's voice... but even other that of other humans... then perhaps we can understand how our own eyes can be yet another reason for our lack of faith... and why Christ said, "If your EYE is causing you to sin... pull it OUT!".

    One doesn't have to pull one's eye(s) out, though, of course. If one can understand how one's eyes "speak"... one might also learn to stop listening[through] them, and instead learn to "quiet" them... and listen to what the eyes CAN'T "hear". One can start by perhaps listening to the voice of other humans where necessary (i.e., the wife, husband, kids, boss, etc.), who they can see... and then perhaps the voice of Christ... and perhaps even the MOST Holy One Himself... who they can't see. Not at first, anyway.

    Anyway, I hope this helps those who it can... to perhaps understand the difference between trust... and faith... because they are not one and the same. Not really. Of course, you can always go the One who speaks "from the heavens"... and ASK HIM for [more] faith. Many did and so. I do, and frequently (because it is one thing, among few, for which more IS better!). If one asks without doubting ... and so having an ASSURED expectation... one WILL receive what one asks for. And it doesn't take much: as another pointed out, just a "mustard-seed". And if one asks in that One's name... one can be even more assured that one will receive it.

    Again, peace to you all... and may JAH bless!

    YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... and a slave Christ, who IS alive... and speaks!...

    SA

  • tec
    tec

    Shelby, are you saying that the difference between faith and trust is that trust is based upon what is seen (sight).... and faith is based upon what is not seen, but is heard/discerned?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • cofty
    cofty
    In other words, one was given some other manner of evidence: a voice, a vision, a dream, a miracle related to something else that tells such one that the thing they hope for will occur.

    How can this be distinguished from wishful thinking?

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    The Israelites did not have real faith in God. If they had then they would not have wanted a golden calf to worship. Jw's trust the organization and it's visible leaders. They do not have real faith in Yeshua whom they cannot see.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I am, dear tec... and excellent point, dear 'Dog (the greatest of love and peace to you, both!).

    How can this be distinguished from wishful thinking?

    The wishful thinker isn't SURE he/she is going to receive what they're hoping for, C... partly because (1) they don't really believe they WILL; (2) because they don't really have any EVIDENCE that they will. So, all they can do is HOPE they will... which is what they do. And there's nothing wrong with that; we all do that, as to something we "want."

    The one exercising faith, however, IS sure that they will receive what they're hoping for: their expectation is ASSURED... because of the EVIDENCE (evident demonstration) they've already received... even though that evidence was not apparent to their EYES ("not beheld" - the word, "behold", means... "look/see"). So, they KNOW they WILL receive whatever it is... and don't just HOPE they will.

    That word, "exercising" is important - it means giving activity/movement to one's faith. So, for example, one "hears" that a deluge is coming upon the earth (okay, "exercise" some restraint here, please, and hold the snark - I'm simply trying to make a point, not debate whether such occurred or not - that's another thread...). One can do two things: ignore the voice... or do what the voice instructs (so as to avoid getting caught in the deluge). Now, one may have never seen a deluge, so it would be reasonable for one to say, "Okay, I'm gonna wait until I at least some rain drops, and some pretty good ones, because a sprinkle isn't gonna prove to ME that a deluge is coming. It rains all the time (yeah, the WTBTS on that is a lie! It has rained before - duh...)! So, I'll WAIT for some PROOF, some "evidence" that tells me this rain is different! Like honking big rain drops, maybe even for several days/weeks!" That would be the one who ignores the voice.

    The one who listens... and does what the voice says... reasons THIS way:

    "Hmmmm... it's never rained like THAT before, THAT much... so that I need to build such a huge vessel! Nor can I "talk" with animals so as to get them on the dang thing if it DID. Hmmmm... But, well, that One speaking hasn't lied to me YET; everything he's told me THUS far has turned out exactly as he told me, so... Hmmmmm... Now, I can build an ark... and probably receive great scrutiny AND ridicule from my neighbors... or I can save face with THEM... and just ignore the voice. If I build it and it doesn't rain, well, doesn't deluge... man, they're are gonna give me SUCH a hard time! I'll never live it down! On the other hand... if I don't and it DOES deluge... Hmmmm... what's worse: the scorn, ridicule, and loss of respect from my peers... or the loss of my (and my families') life? Which I am more willing to risk? Should I trust what that voice told me... and DO it? Or should I just blow it off? Hmmmm...

    The with FAITH who listens... just does what the voice says... because the One speaking has already proven himself...TO such one... to be truthful... by the things he has said and/or done previously. "Evident demonstration... of the reality." And so, while such one, yes, puts his TRUST in the One speaking... his going ahead and BUILDING the vessel... is how he shows his FAITH... IN that One. He "exercises"... puts into action/movement... his claim of trust! Not just because of his trust in the One speaking... but because, again, that One previously provided demonstrative evidence that what he says IS reliable/trustworthy.

    I hope this helps. Peace to you all!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • cofty
    cofty

    So its a spectrum of hope/belief/faith.

    If you really knew anything for sure faith would be redundant.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I don't think that faith and trust are the same.

    Faith tends to be something given, while trust tends to be something earned.

    I think that sometimes we confuse the two.

  • cofty
    cofty

    PS - What do you mean when you say faith is given?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    We tend to put faith in thing or have/give faith because "something tells us to", whereas we tend to put our trust in things we have evidence to trust.

    EX: We can say we have faith in our car (starting every morning for example) but what we mean is we trust our car because it hasn't let us down yet.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Sorry I'm still puzzled.

    It sounds a lot like a distiction without a difference. Are you sure we are not just playing senantics?

    Who or what tells us to have faith in the supernatural?

    I don't have faith that my car is blue I know its blue.

    Believers often claim to know that god exists and that he speaks to them and they also say they have faith god exists and speaks to them.

    If they know such a thing then they have no need of faith do they?

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