Killing Ananias and Sapphira

by irondork 313 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • panhandlegirl
    panhandlegirl

    I found this on Gateway.com, Just googled ananias and sapphia. Seems the consensus is that God zapped them. I also understood the text to mean that God killed them.

    "As Ananias listens to this expose (NIV's when Ananias heard this does not do justice to the simultaneous action indicated by the present participle), suddenly he falls down and dies (exepsyxen, used primarily in accounts of death as a result of divine judgment--Acts 5:10; 12:23; Judg 4:21). God, the knower of all hearts, has assessed Ananias's unrepentant heart and immediately judged him for his sin (contrast Acts 15:8).

    Such a punishment, "death at the hands of heaven," was a recognized penalty in Old Testament and Jewish law....

    Such discipline certainly has its deterrent value. The hasty, unceremonious burial of Ananias shows the believers recognize that God's judgment has fallen on one who by his embezzlement had violated the transparent unity of the Spirit-filled assembly (see Lev 10:6; Semahot 2:8). The young men (young in age, not office) cover his eyes and wrap his body in a shroud (synesteilan; the word systellontos, referring to a functionary related to burials, has been discovered on an inscription in a synagogue in Beth Shearim--see Safrai 1976:776). Without the traditional rituals of mourning, Ananias is taken outside the city and buried.Beautiful Conspirator (5:7-11)"

    PHG

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    No...having it written makes it easier for YOU to quote to support what you are trying to tell everyone.

    There are lots of holy books, not just about your god...and I don't need any of them.

    I don't need something to be written. Sometimes, seeing it makes it easier for me to believe something I heard (in spirit). But that is a lack of faith. And i heard first..tec

    Whatever!...so you claim. You won't be the first or the last to claim to hear things. Shame all these hearers seem to hear different stuff. A bit like the bible in fact. Maybe thats why it's so contradictory.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    2 Tim. 3:16

    All scripture is inspired of God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

    So the scriptures are not lies.

    So what was Jesus referring to when he mentioned lying scribes, and also condemned the Pharisees if not what they were writing in scripture.

    Well we know they added a lot of tradition and extra rules to the people. Let’s look at some of the lying habits they had:

    Matthew 23: 16-22

    16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

    How else were they liars?

    Matthew 23:29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! For you build tombs for the prophets, and adorn the tombs of the righteous. 30 And you say, “If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.” 31 So, you bear witness regarding yourselves, that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 And, you fill up the measure of your fathers. 33 Snakes! Offspring of snakes! How shall you escape the judgment of gehenna? 34 Because of this, behold, I send to you prophets and wise ones and scribes. And some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and will persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias the son of Barachias, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this kindred .

    Mark 7:4-11

    New International Version (NIV)

    4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles. [ a ] )

    5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

    6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

    “‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    7 They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are merely human rules.’ [ b ]

    8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

    9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe [ c ] your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ [ d ] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ [ e ] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)—

    So it would appear that Jesus was never in dispute with the scriptures he quoted (2 Tim. 3:16) but with what the scribes and Pharisees did with those scriptures and what they added to them. In fact, he condemned them for going beyond WHAT WAS WRITTEN---never condemning what was written.

    And it basically comes down to this. The very scriptures you quote from to support your theory that the scribes were lying were the very scriptures that those scribes had written.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Not to mention that it was common for the ones doing the lying to talk about others lying to bolster their writings as genuine. Who to believe? Who to believe? I know, lets just make it simple and believe the stuff we like...

  • tec
    tec

    Lying pen of the scribes handled the law falsely way back when the law was given, NC.

    Can't erase that one line just because it means that you might have to think, to pray, to ask and listen in spirit, for understanding.

    The only time i ever look at my bible anymore is when i need to support something I understand for others... or when I need to look up something someone else has stated.

    But I don't need the bible. Fact, I set the bible aside, because it kept conflicting with what I heard, from the peace and love that I was understanding, just turning to God and listening in my heart. It was only after I learned to listen, even though I don't think I understood that at the time, that I could pick the bible back up and see the peace and love of Christ, and therefore God, in the writings about them.

    And it is what they 'added to the scriptures' that I am talking about. Not just going beyond... but added to... even if only out of misunderstanding.

    As well, just because there were 'lying scribes' does not mean that they were all lying scribes.

    You gotta think, reason, compare, listen, ask. Since I find the simplest thing to do is to listen to Christ, the Truth, well... that is what i do.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    I know, lets just make it simple and believe the stuff we like...

    Or conversely, all the stuff we don't like...

    Peace,

    tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Well then it is a crying shame that your Jesus and your god allows this lying pile of trash to sit around representing them for thousands of years to mislead the majority of the people in this earth, to act as a shield and an obstacle that blocks the billions from truly getting to know who your god is, and only the few that are lucky enough to figure out on their own that they must hear voices to understand, in line to have any kind of relationship with with this god.

    It is a devastating idea that they have allowed this pile of lies to sit between the people and them. That they sit back and watch a world that tells people that hearing voices is pathological and a sign of serious mental illness while knowing this is the only way to truly get to know them.

    So we will go with your way, Tec. Your inner voice telling you what is what. And a bible that has mislead all of humankind for thousands of years. And a god that sits back and allows it to happen.

    I can't tell you how happy I am to know such a being does not really exist.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    The only time i ever look at my bible anymore is when i need to support something I understand for others.

    Why do they need you to quote the lying scribes? How does that bolster your cause?

  • tec
    tec

    Why do they need you to quote the lying scribes?

    I don't quote lying scribes... Christ would not point me to them for certain, unless it would be to point out what was wrong... and the 'they' is people such as yourself, so maybe you should tell me why...

    NC, the bible and religions exist because people want them to. People choose them. People promote them, join them, need them... for whatever reason that is theirs alone. Some NEED to have something to see or touch, and that opens the path to some people abusing that.

    But Christ and God are spirit... not something seen and touched with the physical senses.

    And listening to Christ, and listening in spirit... is not 'my' way. It is what God and Christ have asked us to do.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    I am off to bed ladies.

    Good night and peace to you both :)

    tammy

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