I swear that la bamba looking kid is borderline breakdancing.
5 Reasons Why the DEAF Masturbation Video is different than anything before...
by BluePill2 241 Replies latest jw friends
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Dismissing servant
Now it's removed from Youtube! Watchtower claims the rights
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jmorgan74
Oh come on. Show me a religion pantomiming both female and male masturbations, along with orgasmic facial expressions, in a liturgical context, on a website. If you find one, I'll gladly mock it.
rebel8, with respect, I think a misunderstanding has taken place. Originally you said "The cult should not be talking about this subject under any circumstances." That was the very first thing you said in your 8910 post on 9/9. So I responded (and even labeled as "1)" for clarity): "I don't think this one is quite reasonable, unless you're going to hold all religions to this standard." You responded that you did, and asked for examples. I gave you examples of other religions talking about the subject.
While I'm glad that you seem to be an equal opportunity mocker, that wasn't the point I was making. If anything, I ultimately agree with you that the signs look pretty bad, and they're actually pretty funny. What you don't seem to recognize though is that you're adopting a position that's unreasonable (by creating a standard that no other religion would accept, namely, to not discuss masturbation "under any circumstances"), and one that blames the Society because of linguistic features that you don't like. I'll say it again, this is a problem you have with American deaf people that invented their language to communicate sexual concepts by pantomiming the behaviors.
I feel like I'm the only one here that's suggested, "Hey, why don't deaf people just change that feature of ASL to be more like a euphemism, which is what all other languages do when it comes to these matters?" The Japanese seem to have come up with some decent looking hand gestures that seem more appropriate, at least to me.
But as been stated by others here, deaf people don't care about what the likes of what you and I think. So I guess we just have to deal with it?
I'm not interested in changing your mind. If you think the video is appropriate then good for you. Why don't you visit the nearest daycare, show it to the kids, and see how long it takes you to get arrested. Then tell the police they are being overly sensitive and their problem is with ASL, not you.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Your analogy is way off base, if it's supposed to be a comparison of anything the Society has done. But I wouldn't even have to go to a daycare. I can go out to a local Mall, or even in my secular work, and start doing those gestures and see immediately that most people will taken offense.
I agree! So deaf people should change their language, right?
Right?
I don't know why you think the wts/cronies' reasons for doing this mitigates the outcome. It has absolutely nothing to do with the effect.
What exactly is the outcome that you're referring to? I asked you this before, and you didn't answer my question.
Even if we accept that we're not going to change each other's minds, if we're going to dialogue we should both at least answer each others' direct questions...
Thanks,
Jack -
King Solomon
Rebel 8 said:
Oh come on. Show me a religion pantomiming both female and male masturbations, along with orgasmic facial expressions, in a liturgical context, on a website. If you find one, I'll gladly mock it.
"Pantomine"?
Ah, there's nothing like displaying a lack of concern for inadvertently causing offense while expressing one's own offense....
Rebel, that one has already been placed in the "ASL is a language (which includes those "orgasmic expressions", as you charactize them), so get over it already" file....
(I personally find watching someone pronounce a certain word (that I won't repeat) in Szechhuan Chinese to insult my delicate sensibilities, but I do what I can to get by, and suffer in silence and overcome... sigh....)
And REMEMBER: the ones making the goffy GIFs are NOT the WTBTS, but others who seemingly get some kick out of it.... WT didn't put it on YouTube: someone stole it and put it up without their permission.
Anyway, the site this video was launched from is called "something awful dot com". Their motto is, "The Internet Makes You Stupid" (and it's not clear to me if that's a claim, or perhaps their mission statement?).
They have a discussion in their forum on this topic that's actually pretty good (and the forum NOT surprisingly has it's share of doofuses who say stuff like "setting the GIF to music is a victimless crime, since the deaf cannot hear it anyway".... Beevis and Butthead could not be more proud....). Overall, it's worth a look:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3504602
Not that it matters: it's an internet meme, which by definition takes off by appealing to the lowest-common denominator.
In fact, this meme actually makes a great example for the WTBTS to point to and tell their young children, "You SEE just how disgusting and crude the World really is? There is nothing even remotely worthwhile or redeeming to be found out there in this Worldly System of Things, except for a bunch of crude and cruel people who will laugh at us, and mock us for your beliefs." Kudos, you've given them valid ammunition to confirm and reinforce their paranoia.
Go for it: watch a few of those demeaning, pointless jerk-off GIFs set to music, and you tell me that JWs don't have a TRUE valid point there...
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rebel8
Wow honey, your logic is so twisted.
Kudos, you've given them valid ammunition to confirm and reinforce their paranoia.
Evidence I'm responsible for that?
The issue has nothing to do with ASL, never has, never will. I believe you're deliberately trying to not hear that.
You keep trying to pretend the only audience to this pantomime is ASL speakers, so we shouldn't be offended because they aren't (despite the fact that you've seen videos of offended ASL speakers protesting).
It's on the www for all people who speak all languages can see the demo, so it doesn't matter what language it's in--it translates into something generally considered offensive in the native tongue of the wts and most its members.
You said it would have no affect on kids, so you should not have any objection to pantomiming it yourself at a daycare.
Now you are claiming I haven't addressed your questions. Poppycock; I've addressed them multiple times.
Adios--I am done with this silly discussion.
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King Solomon
Kudos, you've given them valid ammunition to confirm and reinforce their paranoia.
Evidence I'm responsible for that?
Huh? I didn't mean "you" personally, I meant those leaked it from Bethel (whoever they are: who knows), in the hopes of raising whatever "bigger" issues they thought it open raise.
The video was hijacked by those who saw the visual potential to make GIFs, set it to sexy music, etc. So any "message" that anyone would like to make has been long-lost: it's a funny jerk-off GIF now.
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jmorgan74
rebel8,
The issue has nothing to do with ASL, never has, never will. I believe you're deliberately trying to not hear that.
Not sure if this was directed to only KS, or the both of us. I assume the latter.
If you post again, could you please clearly explain why this has nothing to do with ASL? Given that the deaf people here have stated that, linguistically speaking, the gestures themselves are right in line with what's considered the best ASL? That's what you primarily have a problem with, right? The graphic nature of the gestures?
You keep trying to pretend the only audience to this pantomime is ASL speakers, so we shouldn't be offended because they aren't (despite the fact that you've seen videos of offended ASL speakers protesting).
Again, not sure if this is directed to me or not. But I haven't "pretended" any such thing. I agree with you that the gestures are graphic and inappropriate. But a lot of deaf ASL users don't agree, they think it's just fine. I'll say it one more time: That's a problem you have with ASL, it says nothing about the Society.
And I can't understand what those deaf people are signing when you say they "object" in their videos. Are they objecting about the signs, or are they objecting about the Society's message?
It's on the www for all people who speak all languages can see the demo, so it doesn't matter what language it's in--it translates into something generally considered offensive in the native tongue of the wts and most its members.
Yeah, agreed. But I think most reasonable people will laugh, and then when they realize that they're laughing at, namely, deaf people using ASL to communicate their ideas, they'll probably feel a little crummy. I know I did initially. But after thinking more about it, especially after looking at the Japanese version of the video, then I thought, "why don't American deaf people just sign these things more appropriately?" I think it's a kinda jerk thing to just dig your heels in and insist upon your own way of doing things, when you know that it makes others uncomfortable, and when you can easily change whatever the behavior is.
You said it would have no affect on kids, so you should not have any objection to pantomiming it yourself at a daycare.
I don't know if you're just upset because I'm disagreeing with you, or what it is, but I never said that. What I asked you to do was to provide a hypothetical that illustrated how exactly this would affect kids, and upon what circumstances, and how that would that even work anyway. Except for giving me the ridiculous suggestion to put it upon myself to go visit some daycare and perform the ASL about masturbation to kids that don't even know what masturbation is, which would result in more confusion (but, I admit, also sounds hilarious - like it belongs in an Adam Sandler movie), you haven't even come close to doing that.
I would also argue that despite the bubble you're wanting to put kids in, they're likely to see a whole lot worse standing in line at a grocery store near the magazine rack, than viewing a bunch of hand gestures in a religious context and when they probably won't know what they mean anyway. (And if they do, they won't be traumatized by them!)
Now you are claiming I haven't addressed your questions. Poppycock; I've addressed them multiple times.
Haha... poppycock...
Yeah well, no you haven't. Not only that, but you've misunderstood me on several occasions now. If you're going to continue, you should slow down, quote me directly, and then respond. That way I can be sure you're actually interacting with me, and not with some version of me that you've invented in your own mind.
Thanks,
Jack -
Iamallcool
BluePill, I have never worked at Bethel, but I do know very few signers on DVD personally. I have met the guy that signed the scripture in the masturbation video. I have never met the wankers before.
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still thinking
LOL lamallcool...
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
A clip from this WT video made it on Comedy Central tonight. The Burn with Jeff Ross had several jokes to go along with the clip about WT telling deaf people not to masturbate. That episode isn't on the website yet. I think it will be number 106.