by BluePill2 241 Replies latest jw friends
Thanks for the quotes, CA. They are all pretty twisted. I recall a few months back there was a thread about the notion of parents stroking children's genitals as child abuse. Quite bizarre.
I had forgotten the strong link they always drew with masturbation and homosexuality. I don't think I ever saw the one on "abnormal, mentally deranged people," though, and of course their fake reference about priests and nuns - they always have to get a little dig in against the Catholics, don't they?
Remember that spelling out words takes MUCH LONGER, and time spent spelling every potentially offensive word means the translator quickly falls behind, isn't using standard language (that saves time) and the other signs quickly get "crowded" thus making it harder for their audience to understand. It's the same with spoken language: try spelling out "m-a-s-t-u-r-b-a-t-i-o-n" vs saying it. Same deal....
"The translator quickly falls behind"... behind what? The ASL video is 4:53. The audio recording is 2:53. No effort is ever made to rush the ASL videos so that they sync with any soundtrack or any kind of time restriction. Nothing would have been "crowded" if he spelled masturbation rather than pumped his hand by his crotch and then gestured rubbing female genitals.
If saving time were an issue, why does he gesture for BOTH male and female manual genital stimulation. It would have saved time if he would have just gestured for male masturbation (after all, the Youth book said that 95% of males jack off, but only 2% of women do, or something like that). Particularly the first time he signs all his masturbatory gestures, he could have spelled the word in less time.
Before you continue lecturing me on how terribly cumbersome and time consuming fingerspelling is, and how the deaf are incapable of comprehending spelled words, take a look at WT ASL Bible starting in Matthew chapter 1. THE BROTHER MASTERFULLY SPELLS ALL THE NAMES IN JESUS' LINEAGE! This may be a newsflash for you, but as often as the name Solomon is used by WT ASL and in the Bible, that word gets fingerspelled. The word "masturbate" doesn't appear in the Bible, yet WT uses graphic gestures rather than spell that word. Don't tell me that the deaf are incapable of spelling. That video of Matt. chap 1 proves that ASL has fast and understandable fingerspelling capabilities that WT decided to replace with gestures somewhere between comical and obscene.
"Lady Lee admits to using SEE (not ASL, IIRC), and that ASL is a more graphic, expressive form of signing."
Seriously? You are arguing that if Lady Lee had been siging in ASL, she would have gestured like this?...
The English spoken and written language can certainly be graphic and expressive. Just listen to some rap. Why is it that the English recordings of this subject are not as graphic and expressive as rap lyrics?
Billy...
I just wanted to say that you're just dominating this 'debate'.
EE: "...it isnt the language itself. Its the message."
And it is a crazy message. When I played the deadpan English audio reading with the ASL video, it seemed that it helped open my mind to see that what they're teaching is deceptive and unscriptural. Like I've mentioned too many times already, where the ASL has scriptures listed on the screen, it's easy to process the fact that the Bible doesn't say what they say it's saying. You know what I'm saying?
I think this gif has been posted MORE THAN ENOUGH, and can't help but think that 'some' posters are deriving some kind of prurient pleasure from displaying it repeatedly.
I am interested in the TOPIC, but can we try to have a teeny-tiny bit of class?
SMH
simon17:"Billy... I just wanted to say that you're just dominating this 'debate'."
I'm just frustrated that after all these years, I look at this ASL video and suspect that I've been masturbating incorrectly. He seems to be enjoying it way more than I think I ever did.
Edit to add:
tal: "can we try to have a teeny-tiny bit of class?"
Sorry tal, looks like I already derailed the "class" just moments after your post. It's Friday night and it's hard to try to keep a dignified conversation going about that video. And when I said "it's hard...", I didn't mean anything dirty.
{sigh} maybe I should just go and read my biochemistry textbook. Man, it sucks to have to study on a Friday night. And when I said "it sucks...", I didn't mean anything dirty.
I think all of this stuff is WAYYYYY more messed up than the ASL video...
Yup. Masturbation leads to homosexuality is defo a whacky idea from the past.
However, that stuff is soooo reflective of outmoded old-school thinking about human sexuality, that it's painful to read (but it seems they're moving on with the times, FINALLY. Those articles were printed in the 1970's, 40 yrs ago).
I've personally NEVER heard of a mother or father that would stroke their babies genitals to keep them quiet. Who writes this stuff?!?!?
Believe it or not, but that was NOT an a uncommon popular notion 60 years ago....
I think the element of sexual abuse is if the parent gets some sexual arousal out of it, but the infant just know it feels good, like any other touch (rubbing their belly, head, etc, but they don't put it into sexual terms).
All work and no play ... maybe you need a study break, Billy. Engineering's a lot of work.
Wah wah wah that video is not funny cuz deaf people use it in thier daily life.
what is even more funny is that the guy speaking against masturbation looks like he does it every day.
Andale andale
Billy said:
I'm just frustrated that after all these years, I look at this ASL video and suspect that I've been masturbating incorrectly. He seems to be enjoying it way more than I think I ever did.
But you see, that's not actually true tho, is it?
Because despite all the hyperbole, it's really NOT an "instructional video for how to masturbate", just like "flipping the bird" is NOT an instructional gesture for how to have intercourse. It may INDICATE it, but it's ONLY a SYMBOL, just like a word on the page, or a ASL gesture. SYMBOLS, not the actual ITEMS they represent.
Ask yourself: do most people masturbate while fully-clothed wearing a pants/jacket/tie (!), with their hands 16-inches away from your chest?
All I'm saying is that if you find that even remotely stimulating, then maybe it's good if you don't ever watch a real porn, or an old Madonna video, etc, or we may never see you back here again (and per WT, it can lead to homosexuality).
And to the poster who a few pages back posted about the sexual repression from religion trying to induce guilt over a normal bodily-function, sure, it's an unhealthy attitude when it's overdone like the above articles show. How ironic that the JWs would DARE to hurl stones at Catholics over this, when it's the EXACT SAME psychological dynamic that leads to JW child sexual abuse, followed by organizational cover-up to avoid public embarrassment to save face in the name of the religion and God.
People grow up in that kind of sexually-repressed environment, and it's like uncorking a bottle of champagne when they're out of the org, and it bursts out: people never learned to express that suppressed pent-up energy during their arrested psycho-social development, so when they lose the inhibition of the religion they're left without any restraints, or impulse controls. It's a classic response....
Remember though that ALMOST ALL mainstream religions condemn masturbation, to some extent (you have to get down to the Wiccans to find a viewpoint that's more modern, liberal, and accepting).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_masturbation
So if you want to demonize the JWs over this one particular issue, then you're probably going to find this is NOT some odd-ball position that is isolated to just a single cult, but shared by almost ALL mainstream religions (and in fact, a group that broke from the others likely WOULD be the nutty cultists, like most people would think of the Wiccans).
So what's left? All you have is a prurient silly little video/GIF, but not much else. Then you can spend time arguing with 14 y.o. JW kids on YT, to make yourself feel better than them (or not).
