Unconditional Love-How would you describe it? (page 16)

talesin

Yes, speaking of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, I learned about that at university.

Second only to necessary bodily functions, is Safety, which includes family. (check the chart)

We need it to survive and function as healthy individuals. If there is no familial love (blood), we seek it elsewhere. Even Maslow says that love is necessary for healthy survival.

Is it not true that many sociopaths were deprived of unconditional parental love as children? hmmmmmm?

Your thrust and parry of words is not working.

King Solomon

Talesin said:

Is it not true that many sociopaths were deprived of unconditional parental love as children? hmmmmmm?

That's a new one to me.... Where'd you dig that up? In other words, prove it.... That's going to be a tough roe to how, as defining UL and proving whether it was present during one's childhood is impossible.

In fact, I challenge any of you to present evidence that suggests that the concept of UL is used in ANY reputable (non-fringe, AKA NOT a crystal healing, chakra alignment mystic spiritual healer, etc) modern psychiatrist/psychologist school of thought, and not just the pedestrian use that RVW's article points out:

"unconditional love" has become a meaningless slogan of the Oprah/Jerry Springer world, a pseudo-insight sprayed over a banal commonplace.

And to tag onto that idea, why SHOULD it exist?

I don't think unconditional love (or unconditional anything, for that matter) is a sign of a mentally-stable personality.

We don't consider people who are unconditionally ANYTHING (i.e. fill in the emotion: anger, fear, sadness, etc) to be healthy. ANY emotional state that is unconditional, not subject to modification by the environment, and being permanently locked into it's "on" position, is not healthy. Love IS blind for some, until they regain their vision after the passion dwindles....

The emotion of love has been idolized as existing in a permanent "on" state rather than as a emotion that is dependent on circumstances. In fact, idealizing it in that manner robs it of it's beauty when it IS attained, since instead of celebrating the often-transient nature and celebrating, people take it for granted and despair when it ISN'T meeting their expectations. People thus are accepting the beauty of the actual reality for their pipe-dream of UL.

The parallels of the desire for everlasting life in the New System are undeniable: people sacrifice here and now for their desire for an eternity, and hence will attain neither.... That's truly sad.

Hence some are perpetuating a modern urban legend, a pop psychology belief in UL that needs to be put out of it's misery because of the misery it creates for failing to attain it, and actually blocks some from ever attaining anything.

still thinking

KS...I live that 'urban legend' 24/7..I probably don't live it to their pop definition of the words...but I still live it.

I am not trying to convince you with science of pseudoscience. In fact, I'm not trying to convince anyone. I am sharing my experience. And my experience tells me that what works BEST for me is unconditional love. Healthy unconditional love. Love that looks after me emotioanally, and that cares for others without defenses or regret.

It may not fit into a text book. But I don't really care about that. I don't live my life to fit into texts books.

I have no belief of god, the powers of crystals, planetary alignment, chakra alighnment or any other flavour of belief you would like to mention. None of that has anything to do with how I live my life.

It's interesting how people want to pull it apart, why is that? Don't they like the idea? or is it just that they have never experienced it so cannot grasp the concept?

still thinking

I don't think unconditional love (or unconditional anything, for that matter) is a sign of a mentally-stable personality. We don't consider people who are unconditionally ANYTHING (i.e. fill in the emotion, be it anger, fear, sadness, etc) to be healthy.

Who is WE? Who are they to judge? And why is it being compared to unconditional Anger, fear, sadness etc?

Why not compare it to unconditonal joy, bravery, happiness? Why the negatives?

talesin

It would be beneficial if you would address my point about Maslow, instead of obfuscating.

I was talking about M-A-S-L-O-W.

thanks. :P

King Solomon

Still thinking said:

It's interesting how people want to pull it apart, why is that? Don't they like the idea? or is it just that they have never experienced it so cannot grasp the concept?

Listen to yourself: do you realize that you could replace the word "love of Jesus" in there, and you'd be alot like someone on this board who says we just don't get it because we have never felt his love?

I said:

We don't consider people who are unconditionally ANYTHING (i.e. fill in the emotion, be it anger, fear, sadness, etc) to be healthy.

Still thinking said:

Who is WE? Who are they to judge? And why is it being compared to unconditional Anger, fear, sadness etc?

Why not compare it to unconditonal joy, bravery, happiness? Why the negatives?

Stop and think, and answer your own question:

Do you consider unconditional joy or happiness to be an appropriate emotion to experience and express after the tragic murder of a loved one?

Of course not: that's not the "normal" expected human reaction to such bad news, and if it was murder, showing joy would instantly make you prime suspect #1 in the Police Dept's eyes!

Humans are reactive animals, and in fact, ALL animals are reactive to varying degrees: expecting anything else is unrealistic, and dare I say, robotic? The same applies to all emotions: love is not and should not be exempt.

Talesin said:

It would be beneficial if you would address my point about Maslow, instead of obfuscating.

I was talking about M-A-S-L-O-W.

Uh, Maslow's hierarchy of needs for self-actualization and individual growth didn't talk about UL for OTHERS, but only oneself; besides 'safety' isn't 'love'. What's your point in dragging him into this, as if to make a point that even he didn't try to make?

still thinking

Listen to yourself: do you realize that you could replace the word "love of Jesus" in there, and you'd be alot like someone on this board who says we just don't get it because we have never felt his love?

LOL...well if you say so....but I don't intend to do that...I know what works in my life. You don't get it. I thought it was a relevant question.

And as far as comparing it goes...I am not doing the comparing...I just asked why you feel the need to make it negative all the time?

so using YOUR example

Do you consider unconditional joy or happiness to be an appropriate emotion to experience and express after the tragic murder of a loved one?

Would it be appropriate to still love the person? Why are you comparing apples with oranges?

talesin

Reference #1

From whatispsychology.net

url: http://whatispsychology.net/how-to-character-disturbed-children/

excerpt:

Children are all born with different personality traits and some are more sensitive than others. Whilst incidents of abuse, neglect and a dysfunctional childhood are more likely to lead to personality disorders and disturbed character traits in children, even children who grow up in relatively normal families can still develop the symptoms of a character disturbances.

[bold is mine]

still thinking

You know Sol...I really don't think you know what you are talking about. Nothing personal...but have you EVER been in a situation where the person did not deserve the love but you gave it anyway...and it actually made you a better human being because of it. I'm sure you must have experienced that some time in your life. Well.,..THAT was unconditonal love.

talesin

Ref. #2

From Education.State.University.com

url: http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/1823/Child-Abuse-Neglect.html

Excerpt:

[bold is mine]

Effects of Abuse on Children

By its very nature, child abuse is threatening and disruptive to normal child development. The very persons charged with the care and nurturing of a child, and to whom the child turns for food, love, and safety, can cause the child pain and injury. The child then learns to distrust adults. Children who are neglected and abused exhibit a wide array of characteristics and behaviors. Most common among these are anger, acting out, depression, anxiety, aggression, social withdrawal, low self-esteem, and sleep difficulties. At the extreme end, abuse can cause a child to dissociate and develop disorders such as schizophrenia, amnesia, and personality disorder. Personality disorder is a mental disorder that affects a person's ability to function in everyday activities such as work, school, and interpersonal relationships. Borderline personality disorder is a frequent diagnosis for children who are victims of abuse or neglect. Symptoms can include paranoia, lack of impulse control, limited range of emotions, and inability to form close and lasting relationships.

Unconditional Love-How would you describe it?

Effects of Abuse on Children

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