Love and fear are the only emotions we as human entities are able to express.
I don't know if this is true. I am going to mull that over.
Where does indifference come into that? Is it a subcategory or one on it's own?
Unconditional Love-How would you describe it?
by rip van winkle 239 Replies latest members private
-
still thinking
-
still thinking
The first story is about a woman in her 70's who clung to unconditional love for someone decades before (it was a fling), well past the time most would've given up and moved on. She remained trapped, a hostage of her own "unconditional love" for this person (who had forgotten about her).
That is some sort of co dependency or maybe even mental illness or delusion...not unconditional love. Behaving irrationally is not unconditional love. She obviously lived in some sort of fantasy if her 'love' for him stopped her living her life properly. She showed no love for herself.
Also, there is no reason why you should only love one person unconditionally. Love is not limited like that. And it certainly doesn't trap you. It is freeing. Anything else is unhealthy and should not be called love IMO.
-
caliber
Where does indifference come into that ? It is a lacking of so much knowledge as to not even evoke a response of love or hate (fear)
......thus" ignorance is bliss " .. no emotional attachment.... neutral
The total absence of both fear & love with full knowledge would be (IMHO )a psychopath....They are simply morally depraved individuals who represent the "monsters" in our society. They are unstoppable and untreatable predators whose violence is planned, purposeful and emotionless
Their emotionlessness reflects a detached, fearless, and possibly dissociated state -
still thinking
How is it lacking knowledge?
Couldn't indifference come FROM knowledge?
How did you get to ignorance from indifference?
-
caliber
Couldn't indifference come FROM knowledge?
How did you get to ignorance from indifference?
Ok ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge, where indifference is not caring one way or another.
"I don't know and I don't care!"
But why would you not care when it comes to unconditional love ?.. the very nature of the situation
says something has happened to hurt me or offend me, harm me.. how will I respond or handle it ?
-
rip van winkle
King Solomon: Words mean what they mean: they don't mean what we may WANT them to mean.
00Dad responded to KSol-
Unfortunately this is not exactly true. Unlike math equations, words, phrases, sentences and any linguistic construct does not always have a single, immutable and objective meaning.
Words have meaning. But words don't always have just ONE meaning. The meaning can change on context or the situation. The meaning of words change over time. The meaning can change depending on the tone of voice. (Think sarcasm). The meaning can depend on how it is used in the sentence.
Many words have multiple meanings. Which one is intended by the speaker/writer and which one was understood by the listener/reader might be different. Many words also have connotative value.
If every word only meant one thing all the time we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It would be a settled matter.
The point I was trying to make (apparently unsuccessfully) was that the way some of you on this thread are defining/interpreting the word "conditional" is NOT the same as the way that others are using it and/or intending it to be understood.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
00Dad- yes, I'm sorry I missed responding to your post the other day. Props to you 00Dad !Your points are so well presented. Of, course, I agree with what you wrote! And they are worthy of getting another go-round!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ksol said-Don't get me wrong: it's healthy to have the DESIRE to experience unconditional love, or to seek relationships with those who are likely to give and receive love with few strings attached, but it's setting expectations WAY TOO HIGH; people are likely to be disappointed if it's not achieved. It's one of those life situations where you may NOT want to test the limits of other's love (as an answer to a question that you really don't want to know).
The good news is that MOST people would claim to want to give/get love unconditionally, and the DESIRE to know unconditional love is a worthy goal to have (esp if it pertains to love of one's children, family, etc), as long as people realize not to be too disappointed if they don't attain it....King Solomon
Still thinking said to Ksol- I am confused by this...I know, I'm easily confused....LOL
We are discussing unconditional love, yet this is referring to wanting the desire to experience it...to get it without strings attached, setting expectations, and being disappointed when you don't get it.
Unconditional love is NOT about getting...it is about giving. It is not about allowing yourself to be abused.
When you love yourself unconditionally you will not allow this to happen. You CANNOT love anyone else unconditionally unless you love yourself uncondtionally first.
~~~~~~~~~~
Still thinking- you have bared your soul regarding your own experience with Unconditional Love. There is no doubt in my mind that you understood perfectly well Ksol's position. And you have stated your position, quite thoughtfully, which I completely agree with.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Caliber said- The fact that we yearn for U.L. shows that it is a worthwhile goal even if it proves difficult or near to impossible to achieve
it's branches spread everywhere
Romantic love sweeps you away with promises, illusions and delusions. Unconditional love wants nothing in return
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Caliber- your observations are spot-on!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-
rip van winkle
RVW said:
KSol- I do admire the ease in your ability to turn a word or a phrase into pages of discourse. I also respect you and your firmly positioned feet on the subject matter. Though, I am often left wondering why you are such a stickler and so exacting when people use certain phrases. I don't know who coined the phrase "Unconditional Love". I do understand what you and others have posted. Yes, the term itself is a misnomer. But what that word phrase has come to define, again, is not love without boundaries. ( Many here as 00ad and I have repeatedly said so)
Ksol responded: No need to "coin" the phrase, as it uses two pre-existing words: "unconditional" and "love". Combining those words doesn't change their individual meaning.I didn't create the rules of communication,but the bottom line is if you want to be understood properly and get your point across with minimal confusion, you must use proper words, as defined by the rules of whatever language you are speaking; going "off the reservation" is done at one's own risk.
I used to work as a doctor, and I have to be VERY CAREFULin my line of work to pick your words properly so as to avoid confusion (specifically, to avoid the patient misinterpreting what you say, creating heightened/unrealistic expectations). In some ways, I think I'm more of a lawyer than a doctor, as that's how critical word selection is to healthcare providers these days in order to avoid litigation.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, Ksol, I hear you now, as I heard you before. It’s o.k. ( Heavy Sigh) And no matter what anyone else will say on this topic, you will find a way to dispute it .You continue to dispel the idea that ‘UL’ can exist and does exist However, I reiterate, the word-phrase ‘Unconditional Love’ has a specific meaning. Sol, you are correct that by definition, ‘unconditional’ means without conditions. But, again you are stuck in your position.
Sol, I’d like you to consider that instead of solely applying the combined individual meaning of each word, let’s look at the word-phrase defined by the person who coined the phrase, and the meaning they applied to it’s term. IMHO, that would be a better barometer to measure by, than your personal opinion or mine.
V V V V
Far from being Biblical, the term "unconditional love" was coined by
Erich Fromm, an atheist:
..."unconditional love" has become a meaningless slogan of the
Oprah/Jerry Springer world, a pseudo-insight sprayed over a banal
commonplace.
Coined by German psychoanalyst Erich Fromm in 1934, the concept was
developed in his 1956 book, The Art Of Loving. Fromm naively believed
that a father's love was always conditional - upon success, good
behaviour, etc - while a mother's was unconditional, and couldn't be
forfeited by sins or transgression. His ideas were refined in the
1960s by the humanist psychologist Carl Rogers, who suggested that
therapists should try and offer their clients "unconditional positive
regard". Through this unjudgmental acceptance, the client would
integrate the unwanted parts of their personality and become more
self-accepting.
Guardian Unlimited
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,854257,00.html
Another man who helped form modern psychology is Erick Fromm. It was
from Fromm that we got the phrase "unconditional love." He rejected
all forms of authoritarian government including God's. He portrayed
the God of the Old Testament as a self-seeking authoritarian. He was
an atheist and argued against the fundamentals of the Christian faith.
He believed that man is the measure of all things. He did not oppose
religion as long as it was subjective. He taught that a person must
love himself, accept himself, and esteem himself in order to reach his
highest potential. He did not see love as coming from outside himself.
He said, "I am loved because I love."
Fromm describes a truly religious person as one who does not pray for
anything and does not expect anything from God. He says that a truly
religious person does not love God as a child loves his father or his
mother. And so from Fromm's point of view, faith in God is replaced by
faith in self, and love for God is replaced by love for self.
In psychology, unconditional love would refer to a state of mind in which the individual has the goal of increasing the welfare of another, despite any evidence of benefit for them self. The term is also widely used in family and couples counseling as seen in counseling manuals such as "Love for No Reason: 7 Steps for Creating a Life of Unconditional Love" [2] . Psychological Theory of Unconditional Love Psychologist, Dr. Carl Rogers Dr. Carl Rogers, spoke of an unconditional positive regard. Dr. Rogers theoretical view was from a humanistic perspective. Dr. Rogers was one of the first and most prominent "Humanist" Psychologists. Along with Dr. Rogers, Dr. Abraham Maslow Dr. Abraham Maslow viewed the unconditional perspective that in order to grow, an individual had to have a positive perspective of themselves. Dr. Rogers theory was that the individual needed an environment that provided them with genuineness, authenticity, openness, self-disclosure, acceptance, empathy, and approval. “True love is the best thing in the world, except for cough drops.” ~ William Goldman, The Princess Bride Psychological Concept Applied in Relationships Unconditional love is essential for the unity of a relationship. Without an unconditional, a relationship will not last. Unconditional love knows no wrongs or holds no grudges. The unconditional forgives without question. If I have not an unconditional of love, then I will remember, recall, and think upon the past. Conditions say that I will only forgive up to a specific place or concept or ideological viewpoint. [edit] Psychological Applied to Children Dr. Asa Don Brown Dr. Asa Don Brown, an author, columnist, and psychotherapist with the Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association[3] states that, "All children should be taught to unconditionally accept, approve, admire, appreciate, forgive, trust, and ultimately, love their own person." -
rip van winkle
bttt
-
still thinking
That was a good read rip van winkle.
Is this why some have a dislike for the idea of unconditional love? Is it because people see it as something biblical or fantasy?
I am not one for belief in turning the other cheek. Not at all.
Unconditional love is essential for the unity of a relationship. Without an unconditional, a relationship will not last.
I think a relationship can last...or at least survive without unconditional love...relationships do all the time. People often treat relationships as though they are something to be tolerated.
But a relationship is vastly different when it has its roots in unconditional love. There are no grudges held. There is no tit for tat. There is no hurt by the actions or inactions of others. And love that is given freely...is returned freely. Without strings. There is no blackmail. There are no expectations.
Love that is received is cherished, because it is given freely.
-
rip van winkle
Thank you Still thinking for your expressions and personal points of views. Through your experience you have learned how to make application of it's principles in your life. Still thinking :Is this why some have a dislike for the idea of unconditional love? Is it because people see it as something biblical Love that is received is cherished, because it is given freely*. ~~~~~~~~~~ Yes. I think that's true, ST. Many were speaking from what they have experienced in the Cult religion of the WTS. And for some their wounds are so deep; inflicted on them by the very ones who should have been loving THEM, unconditionally. And DID not. All the love they received, if ANY at all, had many strings attached. Shunning is a form of submission and is an abusive method to control a person's actions. The idea of a loving parent shunning their child is contradictory to the healthy unconditional love some here were discussing. For some, the separate definitions of each word:" Unconditional " & " Love" is their basis of their belief that the terms are still contradictory, eventhough the coined phrase of the combined words "Unconditional Love" has a specific meaning, apart from their individual words. (*Maybe some would prefer the title FREE love, but then that word-phrase connotes a whole other kind of love- ala the'60's pyschedelia , sex, drugs and rock-n-roll !!!!)