Why get "personal" when discussing a topic?

by Terry 135 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Terry

  There are certain personalities who seek out certain other posters (enemy's list?) and stir them up with taunts, jibes, insults, provocations and baited-arguments (Troll style). Can this be anything other than Premeditated Intent?

  Really? Isn't it possible they are interested in the same topics, but from a different perspective? Are people really seeking specific people out?

  If the topic is american politics....don't those who are interested in that end up looking at the same threads?

  Certainly, it is possible and even likely. But, let's get to the real meat of my statement.

  When the VERY FIRST comment made is personal and provocative and directed toward one person---what then?

  Offending Mind Games begin several ways.

  1. Personal hostility masquerading as jokes at another person's expense

  2. Discounting, diverting and underminging every statement on a personal level

  3. Passive aggressive baiting/whining

  All the above are motivated by feelings of inferiority or superiority--with no middle ground in sight.

  One person looks at the other as condescending and belittling. The other person sees a Troll itching for a pretext for commeuppance.

  Where is the Love? Where is the humanity? And, not least of all, where is the respect for the Subject Topic?
• 

  still thinking

  I'm going to go and look at the thread so I know what you are referring to....well, at least the first comment made...it's a long thread.
• 

  panhandlegirl

  Thank you, panhandlegirl ; what a lovely compliment. :))

  talesin,

  You're welcome. There are so many mean and uncalled for insults on these posts that when someone is kind or gracious, it stands out to me as though highlighted in black.

  I would think that as exjws we could be more compassionate towards each other. I realize that just because we we all jws at some point in our lives, that does not mean we all share the same attitudes, political convictions, intellect, writing/spelling abilities, or social standing in the world. I have read some excellent posts on here and been impressed with some of the arguments presented. I have even changed my thoughts on some matters due to these arguments, but when posters are insulting for no reason, me mind shuts down to anything else they have to say. I am not thin skinned or sensitve, I just expect good manners from others, especially when I show good manners to them.

  I also feel Terry took a lot of verbal abuse, before offering a retort. I would not have taken those insults as long as he did. I do hope that after this discussion, we can continue without so much vitriol. That does not exclude lively debate and differences of opinion. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
• 

  Terry

  In the end, Turf wars are for little minds, crippled souls and rot gut thinkers.

  I see the shit-stirrers as injured people who cannot heal becasue they can't find an honest mindset as a path.

  Turf wars? seriously?

  This selection of words is unbelievably horrible ....and I can't believe you of all people are putting them together this way to hurl insults in everyones general direction.

  Strikes me as an over-reaction to use the phrase "unbelievably horrible"! But, you feel what you feel and I feel what I feel. Neither of us can reasonably invalidate the other person's feelings. No harm, no foul.

  I think it is an exaggerated over-reach to deconstruct my specific context into: "hurl insults in EVERYONE'S general direction" because I am pointing

  to a singular style of discourse only a VERY FEW posters resort to again and again.

  I would ask that each of us examine how the tendency to color one's adjectives with compelling word choice ramps up the neutral discussion into

  a crescendo leading to misunderstanding of the other's specific thought process in communicating meaning.
• 

  wasblind

  This Nice Person has set a Trap for all the Bad People..

  Watch what happens to THIS topic!

  Instead of discussing the IDEA of courteous debate there will be a few people who immediately steer it into ad hominem.

  Everyone knows his name,so he must be Really Nice!

  Anonymous posters with an alias are invisible as actual persons living in a real community.

  I have yet to see any of the worst offenders here divulge..

  How Nice Baiting / Whining at it's best

  .
• 

  Terry

  Here is a link to a Topic I started one year ago. This was BEFORE any recent threads. I cite this link to demonstrate I am simply repeating my call for honest discussion on a non-personal and mature level.

  How (not) to destroy a thread and turn it into a battleground
• 

  still thinking

  Well, I have to say...It's a pretty provocative thread title and thread to begin with...which you seen to have been aware of...hense you explantion of what you meant by magic thinking....you appear to have some history with some posters....but the loaded language was coming from both sides of that debate right from the first page.

  I am not really surprised that the thread went up in flames....when people are struggling to survive or know people who are...hearing that it may be their own fault can be a tough pill to swallow, especially if you are in that situation right now and there is nothing you can do about it. It brings out emotions. You really can't expect them not to. If I had had a different mind set that day, I may have gone on the defensive myself. But, I was actually more focused on what you were trying to say. Not always the way for me I'll admit. I did get the impression when I posted that many people were misunderstanding what you were actually saying...but I figured, everyone sees what applies to them at the time.

  I got a lot out of your personal story that day, so I suppose I saw it as a positive that someone pushed you to share it, and I thought it clearly showed the point you were making. As for the rest of the thread, I'm not going back to read it all...so I cannot comment.
• 

  dgp

  The title of this post - as everyone knows- is "Why get personal when discussing a topic?" Not for the sake of argument, but for the sake of opinion, this question is correct but is somehow missing one point: sometimes you have to get personal if the topic is very dear or affects you personally.

  Just to use a very common example, try asking a survivor from a concentration camp not to get personal about the Nazi. It would be very difficult. Even if the person were to constrain personal thoughts to cold analysis, the person would still be personally involved.

  Also, some topics outrage people.

  Even so, it is absolutely true that we all should at least strive not to resort to name-calling and discuss the matter at hand, not the person.

  I am often very much in disagreement with things that are said here regarding politics towards Latin America. I feel that quite often people do not really understand the issue or see it from a simplistic perspective. So I need to be very much aware of what I do myself to avoid the name-calling and the ad-hominem and et cetera.

  Incidentally, because of recent political developments in the region where I live, I realize that we Latin Americans are also simplistic in our opinions about events elsewhere in Latin America - or the English-speaking world, for that matter, which, I am afraid, not many of us really understand either.
• 

  Terry

  I hope Wobble won't mind me quoting a post they made one year ago on my "How (not) to destroy a thread and turn it into a battleground."

  I think this should be UPPERMOST in our mind when we post here on JW-net.

  Wobble said:

  I certainly agree we need to keep the tone of debate here as high as possible, and that means showing respect for people, even if we disagree with their views quite strongly.

  Other forums have degenerated to the point where they are of no value to the JW who wishes to find his or her way, we do not want that to happen here.

  This is not a light matter, as I have posted before, when I was first exiting, I was suffering from a form of depression that made me contemplate suicide, the good people on this site pulled me through that, if I had found the site too difficult to be part of , I may not have been around to write this today.
• 

  Terry

  panhandle girl: I also feel Terry took a lot of verbal abuse, before offering a retort. I would not have taken those insults as long as he did. I do hope that after this discussion, we can continue without so much vitriol. That does not exclude lively debate and differences of opinion. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

  I appreciate your evaluation of the situation. Thanks.

  still thinking: If I had had a different mind set that day, I may have gone on the defensive myself. But, I was actually more focused on what you were trying to say. Not always the way for me I'll admit. I did get the impression when I posted that many people were misunderstanding what you were actually saying...but I figured, everyone sees what applies to them at the time.I got a lot out of your personal story that day, so I suppose I saw it as a positive that someone pushed you to share it, and I thought it clearly showed the point you were making.

  Your comments are most welcome both then and now. We are all here to help each other by our personal story, our ideas and the way we express ourself.

  DGP:

  Just to use a very common example, try asking a survivor from a concentration camp not to get personal about the Nazi. It would be very difficult. Even if the person were to constrain personal thoughts to cold analysis, the person would still be personally involved.

  Also, some topics outrage people.

  Even so, it is absolutely true that we all should at least strive not to resort to name-calling and discuss the matter at hand, not the person.

  We all struggle with how to handle what we perceive as unwarranted encroachment where our personal life (family, loved ones) is targeted. As long as we put our love for each other somewhere in that picture as a Fail Safe we can own our humanity proudly. Being human is being fragile at times and being emotional. We just have to make Love for our Fellow Man as the reboot default setting. Not easy to live up to! Nazis pretty much set the standard for implacable evil. I don't see anybody on this site ever reaching that level of malevolence!

  How (not) to destroy a thread and turn it into a battleground