It took me a long time to write this...i'm staying.

by MsGrowingGirl20 110 Replies latest jw experiences

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  wasblind

  Msgrowingirl20,

  I'm glad your a regular pioneer

  Maybe you can teach me somthin' , I'm sure you can follow along in your Reasoning book

  " It is logical to conclude that the Holy spirit is the active force of God."_________Reasoning from the Scriptures book page 381

  The Apostles ( imperfect men ) were directed by this spirit, The Governing Body claim to be directed by this same spirit

  and yet, you can not find where the Apostles taught the things they questioned or imagined

  Luke 19:11 and Acts 1:6 in the Bible show that Jesus was standin' before the Apostles and corrected their thoughts immediately

  On page 133 in the Reasoning book The WTS claim they meet the qualifications of a true prophet, who , as we know

  taught people to believe in falsehoods world wide, and claimed it was from Jehovah's holy spirit directed organization

  Why is it, that the same Active force that was used to create the earth, part the red sea, and impregnate a virgin

  could not guide a group of imperfect men in brooklyn ?????
• 

  Disillusioned Lost-Lamb

  I don't agree with your decision, but if you are truly happy staying then by all means stay.

  An individual’s happiness is far greater than a group’s agenda.
• 

  wasblind

  But will she stay happy, in lacking the ability to answer questions about a religion she believe in
• 

  wannabefree

  Best wishes in whatever you decide.

  Perhaps the verdict against the organization yesterday is a sign to all.

  If God does answer prayers, I had something quite profound happen in direct response to prayers when I was beginning to question the religion, either my prayer was answered or it was a very strange coincidence (my wife at this point prefers to think Satan answered my prayers).
• 

  Cadellin

  Msgrowinggirl:

  I do feel for you. It's a tough decision to make and, hopefully, you will go on to have a great life. Maybe, down the road a few years, another piece of the epistemological puzzle will slip into place and your eyes will open once again. And you'll want out, this time for real. I only hope you aren't married to some uber-zealous, clean-jawed brother by then, and with two or three sweet kids. Because then it REALLY might fall apart for you. It's lousy disappointing your parents and all your friends as a single person, but holy wars in the middle of a marriage are even worse, as numerous posters here will testify.

  Moreover, I think it's swell that God answered your heartfelt prayer so handily. A few years ago, I did exactly the same thing--sobbing, praying my heart out, asking for dry fleece on a dewy threshing floor, etc. I didn't even specify what I needed--left it entirely up to Him. Just that I needed SOMETHING, some kind of help in any form He saw fit. And guess what happened? Nothing.

  So, I have to ask...why you and not me? I've lived my life as the quintessential "good girl," by JW standards. I couldn't have prayed more heartfeltly. I was still attending meetings and going out in service, the whole nine yard. And--nothing.
• 

  losthobbit

  Hi MsGrowingGirl20

  Thank you for sharing your story.

  I used to be a Christian... not a JW. I also used to ask God for a sign... and of course God sent signs, because I was looking for signs. I realize now that that is just how one's brain works... it sees what it expects to see. When I became open minded I learned that for every one in a hundred chance (otherwise known as a sign) there are ninety-nine signs that don't happen. It might take some effort on your part to understand it, but once you do you'll realize that recognizing signs doesn't prove diddly squat. Realize that God is "ALL" powerful, and if he really wanted to show you a sign you would see something A-M-A-Z-I-N-G! (I do wonder why this incredible God doesn't just open his mouth and speak like a normal person... that would end all confusion) Now, I'm going to just take a wild guess that since you didn't actually tell us what the sign was... it probably means that deep down inside you know that the sign wasn't actually of any real significance and that if you told us, we'd point that out.

  The Jehovah's Witnesses have already made thirteen failed predictions about Armageddon:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

  Please, I'm begging you.... be honest with yourself.

  I know it's difficult to be honest with oneself sometimes, but there are books you can read which can help like the free one here:

  http://www.schoolofthinking.org/software.pdf

  Keep reading... read Crisis of Conscience and Combatting Cult Mind Control.

  There are so many people who want to help you... you just have to let them.

  With Friendliness,
  Stephen
• 

  Chariklo

  MsGrowingGirl, I've followed your story on here since your first post, and I do feel for you. Having read your opening post in this thread, I've gone back and re-read some of your earlier ones, to remind myself.

  And actually, I thjink I really know how you feel.A bit. Though we are at opposite ends of life, you are at a point where you've been thinking of beginning a college education, and I have a great deal of higher education and much experience of life.

  I'm going to ask you to pause, and think very hard indeed. Let me explain. Just over a year ago I came onto this site for the very first time. At that point I was a fairly new unbaptised publisher, but some unpleasant things had happened to me, and I was rethinking and asking awkward questions, just as you were when you first came on here. I stopped going to the KH and stopped going out door to door.

  Those closest to me in the KH set about a rescue mission. I was love-bombed afresh, all over again. Reasoned with, studied with, prayed over. I became confused, just as you were in one of your long posts that I've been re-reading. I too had made what seemed like very close friends, and they gave every appearance of really valuing my friendship. I put aside my doubts, and buried them, convinced myself that the JW's wwre absolutely right, that jehovah had drawn me to his organisation, and that although it was imperfect, it was the best there was and Jehovah had chosen this group of people.

  After a couple of months I was told I'd grown spiritually strong enough again to go out on the ministry, and I threw myself into it with great energy and zeal. I mixed nearly every day with pioneers, and their conversaions were about Armageddon and where they would live afterwards and how wonderful it was all going to be, and I told myself I believed it all, and preached to householders and even had embryonic "studies".

  From what you've written, I think you are at this moment in time in a very similar frame of mind as I was when I finally went back into it, and was studied with by an elder and felt so glad Jehovah had given me another chance and was so sorry I'd left for that short time.

  MsGrowingGirl, one month ago you wrote:

  I am no longer one of jehovah's witnesses(WELL mentally that is)---HOWEVER i am a Christian...i recently started reading different translations from www.biblegateway.com...Jesus is so different to how the jw's teach....and God...i mean, i still am learning and confused about certain things but i am in LOVE with them...
  
  It's obvious that the jw's are not an organization of God.i don't think God is working through an organization but through individuals...however i am going to speak to an elder tomorrow about my issues---all of them---and i'm going to tell him everything--what i've been reading,where i got it from---EVERYTHING!! I'm not hiding anything! i have done no wrong....i just want to be a true christian and if they disfellowship me for seeking answers then this is not where i need to be. I want them to prove what i've been reading wrong....i'm going to use references from past watchtowers.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are very good at confusing thinking people with individual fact after fact. Of course they are. You know exactly how thoroughly they are trained, through the Theocratic Ministry School, via the Reasoning Book, through so many conversations and carefully placed apparently chance remarks from long-time pioneers. But that's their flaw. They lose sight of the wood for all the individual trees.

  You wrote last month, that you've discovered that Jesus is so different from the way he's portrayed by the JW's. Yes, he is. And so is God, Jehovah. The Bible teaches clearly that god is a loving God, a heavenly Father who loves his children, all his children. He is Almighty God. If he is the powerful being who created everything that is, through his Son, then is it likely that he would be so petty as to take offence at every minor imperfection? No, it isn't. He's not an angry toddler. The New Testament shows him otherwise.

  Once a CO said to me that the most wicked lie told by Christendom was that God sent people to Hell. The most wicked lie told by JW's is that God will wipe away so many of mankind, babies and little children alongside adults. The WT shows it in garish pictures, time and again.

  That's the reality behind your fear of Armageddon, one instilled into every JW time and again. Do you really think an all-powerful, all loving God who views us collectively as his children and individually as loved ones whose very hairs on the head are known, would wipe us all away? He knows that he is God. Jesus has lived on earth and knows how hard things are.

  It doesn't matter if there are things we don't understand. The Watchtower teaches that through reason and Bible study we can know God. What arrogance! How could God, the Creator of the Universe, possibly be understandable by us?

  These are things just for you to think about. But most of all, GrowingGirl, to think about over a very long time. You said somewhere, I think in one of the earlier threads I've been reading, that although you don't have JW relatives, you have close friends. Really and truly, no JW has close freinds. Close friends stick with you through thick and thin, they don't try to persuade you against your better judgement, they don't try to get you to take a course of action out of fear of some unknown thing, and they certainly don't drop you as a friend, even refuse to speak to you, if you don't do as they say.

  Please. Wait. Think. You're confused and frightened and the JW's seem like a warm and cosy family.

  They're not.
• 

  sd-7

  Well, you have to do what you feel comfortable with. The thought of considering any religious alternative to Jehovah's Witnesses, was, for me, quite terrifying. That same reasoning you have expressed--"Who else does [fill in the blank]?"--was there, too. I would like to respectfully recommend that you challenge yourself with some honest examination here.

  Consider those in Christendom who preach to others--and there are a lot of others who would call themselves Christians who do tell others about Jesus Christ (which is what Jesus said his followers would do: "You will be witnesses of ME"--Acts 1:7, 8). Do you feel that any preaching they do is in vain before God? If so, why? Is it because you feel their teachings are false? What if something Jehovah's Witnesses taught was found to be false? There is much documented evidence to indicate that this is in fact what has happened, repeatedly. Why would it not nullify their preaching work in the same exact way, then? Honestly, all the preaching done by practically every religion for a long, long time could be nullified by the same logic. On the other hand, if there is merit in what Witnesses do, then there has to be merit in what other religions are doing in this regard as well.

  Either way, Jesus did not say he would separate organizations as sheep and goats, but people. And his judgment, as he describes in Matthew 25, doesn't have anything to do with organizational membership or obedience. If you read what the actual words say, he talks about acts of compassion towards our brothers who are in need. He didn't say one word about a preaching work in that, which ought to be surprising, right? Because it's supposed to be important, it's the last command he gave to his disciples on earth. So why is it that his final judgment ends up having nothing to do with that? Well, I'll leave that up to you to ponder. There is a balanced answer there, I believe.

  It's not so much the preaching work that I would even take issue with--it's the underlying organization that ends up undoing the potential for good that such work could have. Why are Christians reporting how many hours they spent preaching to men, to elders? What scriptural precedent is there for that? Can you find any evidence in the Bible that Christians did this in the first century? Why is it that placing literature with people is the ultimate end result, and not placing Bibles, or simply discussing God's Word on its own? Paul didn't use any literature beyond scripture to preach. I can only conclude that Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible cannot be understood without the help of Watchtower literature. If this is true (and it would be easy to find a specific quote from the Watchtower to back up that statement), then it becomes meaningless for a Christian to pray for holy spirit and understanding. And if the Bible alone can't be understood on its own, then how it is truly making you "fully equipped" to do God's will? When you examine this closely enough, accepting the Watchtower Society's literature as truth requires you to undermine the authority of scripture.

  The anointed have put themselves in a position equal to that of Jesus by saying that they will help him administer the benefits of Jesus' ransom sacrifice to mankind over the course of 1,000 years. This has repeatedly been stated in Watchtower articles. Have you noticed that? Does it concern you that not once do they provide a scripture to support that statement in The Watchtower? Paul says that Jesus went into heaven by himself to appear before the person of God for us. He didn't take 144,000 other people, nor did he need their help to offer up his own blood as ransom for mankind. They didn't die for us, only Jesus Christ did. So how can they take or even share the position that belongs to Christ alone? If you preach a message that requires people to believe that the anointed will help administer the ransom to mankind during the Thousand Year Reign, you are party to a message that makes men equal to Jesus Christ. You are responsible for every word written in The Watchtower so long as you invite people to read it.

  I respect your decision to stay. There are compelling reasons to do so. It's easier, right? The burden of facing yourself and grappling with your conscience and having to make decisions about things that were previously decided for you by the 'slave class'--that's a heavy one. If you have family in, that's also a challenge, that leaving might hurt them emotionally and cause them to shun you. The religious confusion that you've been led to believe is everywhere else--that too would seem daunting, as you're trained to think you have to be part of some kind of organization as the bottom line for serving God. And it feels good, to have people smile at you, treat you like you're one of them, forget your troubles and look forward to better times just ahead, after just a liiiittle more obedience and sacrifice. Those things are at the heart of what can make spirituality so appealing. There can be honor in that under certain circumstances.

  Whatever the case, I hope you will give priority to reading God's Word, the Bible, as you are so often reminded to do. The more you actually read it, the more likely you'll find your way as far as these issues. The answers to what you may be looking for might well be in there.

  But just a thought. What questions were you asking to begin with, if for a time, you actually wanted to leave Jehovah's Witnesses? I have a feeling that deep down, those questions are probably still there. And when the time is right, you'll be meeting up with them again. I hope for your sake that you'll be strong enough to face them the right way when that time comes.

  --sd-7
• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Ms.GG, if you choose to return, so be it. It's your choice. However, if you really believe that JWs are "the best of the rest," you can't recover spiritually until you have confessed to the elders, repented, and provided works befitting repentance. The fact that you've associated with apostates on the Internet and read information outside of Watchtower's spiritual food, means that you need the "older men" to aid you in your spiritual recovery.

  In order to be a real Jehovah's Witness, your current attitude that "well, I'll settle for them because I think they're maybe better than most" will never cut it. You have to believe that the Governing Body is God's only channel, and you must truly believe that all the appointed men are placed in their positions by holy spirit. You can't say, "if armageddon was to come now," you have to say, "it is coming very soon, because the Faithful Slave says this is the last day of the Last Days." You must believe that everyone that is not a JW deserves to be slaughtered, and you must eagerly look forward to that day when innocent children are smashed my falling rocks and their young bodies eatten by birds and animals. There are many other things that you MUST believe and there are many things you MUST ignore. That won't be easy once you've allowed your mind to think outside of the WT boundaries.

  Unless you are prepared to unquestioningly believe everything WT tells you, you will never really return to being a JW. Therefore, it is urgent that if you really want to return, you must go and confess to the elders and tell them what you've read. You must tell them your username on this forum so that they can read your comments, doubts, and questions. If you choose to keep these things as your secret, it will eat you up. Unless they read everything you've posted and 'lovingly adjusted your thinking,' you won't really move on as a believing JW. The thought persecuting you in the back of you mind is that whenever something bad happens to you, you will think it must be because you doubted, associated with 'apostates', and are being punished by Jehovah for your wicked, secret sin. You must confess without delay. And if you really have faith in Jehovah and his organization, you should be fearless in confessing everything to the elders.

  However, I don't think your desire to return is really based on your confidence that JWs have any truth.
• 

  ablebodiedman

  "...the bible makes it clear that there will be a faithful slave in the time of the end to give food "

  hhhhhhhhhmmmmm................................ what does the bible say?

  Who really is the faithful and discrete slave and, where will they be found?

  that are excluding you by reason of my name!

  Page 154 - Organized to do Jehovah's Will

  "[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses"

  The faithful and discrete slave will/has been disfellowshipped!

  That IS what the bible says!

  regards

  abe

  Isaiah66:5Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: "YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame."