The true, unsung hero of the Bible....

by Unlearn 267 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    Since 1914, according to the WTS, Satan has been ruling the earth hence all the problems.

    In reality, since 1914 things have been so much better. People live longer, have generally better health with many previously fatal diseases now curable. We no longer sent women down coal mines or children up chimneys.

    I have asked people if they would have prefered to have been born 100 years prior to their birth date, in the age before Satan took over. No one said they would like to go back to those days.

    George

  • steve2
    steve2
    Satan has been no friend to man.
    If you want to think otherwise, then of course you can... but do not be surprised if your reward (from Satan) for defending him and denouncing God is no different than Adam and Eve's.

    Thanks Tammy for your - expected - indirect defence of the "God" of Holy Scripture. Your ability to select evidence for God in a book that reveals his (reported) ferocious genocidality continues to impress. It is however time you widened your lens: You would then see that the very charges laid against the Biblical "Satan" can be levelled against the Biblical "God".

    For starters, you cannot in good conscience ignore the "Scriptural" record in which "God" ordered his "chosen people" to wipe out every living person in the Promised Land, including babies and old people. Ask those people who were slaughtered in "God's name" if "God" was a friend to them. I'm sure even the stones are crying out loud for the spilled blood of innocent humans killed for this "God" - to convert a handy Biblical phrase.

    If it is good enough to allude to Satan's deathly antics, it is good enough to refer to "God's". The only thing that might make someone hesitant to do that is mentioned in the second point you raise: i.e., "...do not be surprised if your reward (from Satan) for defending him and denouncing God is no different than Adam and Eve's."

    In these sweetly marshalled words, we have the crystal clear nub of the Christian argument: Do not denounce "God" because he is far stronger than you and Satan - and you'll suffer the way others have done. Excuse me whilst I measure my blood pressure in the light of your calmly threatening warning.

    Thank you Tammy for confirming my long-held view of Christianity: You subscribe to it not because of all the love, but because you honestly believe that if you don't, you'll suffer at the hands of this God who claims to love humankind.

    Which ever way you look at it - whether it is described as defending Satan or denouncing "God" - believers believe because of the claimed consequences. Love is simply a dispensible add-on. Of course, if we ditch "Holy Scripture" which seems the only way out of this maze, we do not have the problem of defending the indefensible. The genocidal, blood-obsessed "god" of ancient tribes who allowed his son to be killed is no longer an impediment to be solved.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I'm surprised that no one quoted, Please allow me to introduce myself, a man of wealth and fame.....

    I've often read that Satan is a good advocate for humans in Judaism. Christianity invented the idea of a bad Satan. I'm reading Milton's Paradise Lost. It is very slow work. The whole story is so complex and makes no sense. Time and time again God is not moral but we fall short with sin. Judas also has good traits. The victors write history, not the losers.

  • St George of England
    St George of England
    I'm surprised that no one quoted, Please allow me to introduce myself, a man of wealth and fame.....

    Pleased to meet you, Hope you know my name!

    George

  • tec
    tec

    Thanks Tammy for your - expected - indirect defence of the "God" of Holy Scripture. Your ability to select evidence for God in a book that reveals his (reported) ferocious genocidality continues to impress. It is however time you widened your lens: You would then see that the very charges laid against the Biblical "Satan" can be levelled against the Biblical "God".

    Pointing out that Satan is not a friend of man has nothing to do with defending God. I thought I stated that. I simply showed that the biblical evidence does not support the claim made from the title or OP. Satan is no unsung hero.

    A genocidal god is not either, but that is besides the point. (and I see God through Christ alone, as it is, but again besides the point)

    For starters, you cannot in good conscience ignore the "Scriptural" record in which "God" ordered his "chosen people" to wipe out every living person in the Promised Land, including babies and old people. Ask those people who were slaughtered in "God's name" if "God" was a friend to them. I'm sure even the stones are crying out loud for the spilled blood of innocent humans killed for this "God" - to convert a handy Biblical phrase.

    Again, it wasn't a comparison as to who was better.

    Simply a statement that Satan is no unsung hero.

    If it is good enough to allude to Satan's deathly antics, it is good enough to refer to "God's". The only thing that might make someone hesitant to do that is mentioned in the second point you raise: i.e., "...do not be surprised if your reward (from Satan) for defending him and denouncing God is no different than Adam and Eve's."
    In these sweetly marshalled words, we have the crystal clear nub of the Christian argument: Do not denounce "God" because he is far stronger than you and Satan - and you'll suffer the way others have done. Excuse me whilst I measure my blood pressure in the light of your calmly threatening warning.

    I said a reward 'from Satan'. Not from God. Satan is not going to reward you for defending him and denouncing God. He is not even going to speak a word in your defense. He does not care what happens to you. He is not your friend.

    There was nothing further in it than that. Once again, it had nothing to do with God.

    Thank you Tammy for confirming my long-held view of Christianity: You subscribe to it not because of all the love, but because you honestly believe that if you don't, you'll suffer at the hands of this God who claims to love humankind.

    And perhaps you saw this only because it is already your long-held view of Christianity. So you thought you saw a confirmation in my words, but you did not. I do not subscribe to this, at all.

    Which ever way you look at it - whether it is described as defending Satan or denouncing "God" - believers believe because of the claimed consequences. Love is simply a dispensible add-on. Of course, if we ditch "Holy Scripture" which seems the only way out of this maze, we do not have the problem of defending the indefensible. The genocidal, blood-obsessed "god" of ancient tribes who allowed his son to be killed is no longer an impediment to be solved.

    I am sorry you hold this view. I can assure you it is not mine, not is it taught by my Lord.

    I believe because it is true. I believe because of Christ. I understand that for others, this is not true to them. It is to me. And not because of consequences... good or bad. Because of love.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • Knowsnothing
    Knowsnothing

    Just for the sake of argument, tec, why didn't Adam and Eve deserve the knowledge from the Tree of Knowledge?

    Why was knowledge a bad thing, and why was a test even put to begin with? What boggles me more is why the state of being naked is wrong to begin with...

  • tec
    tec

    Just for the sake of argument, tec, why didn't Adam and Eve deserve the knowledge from the Tree of Knowledge?

    For the sake of argument... because they were not ready for it yet. They could not handle it with compassion or love or wisdom or whatever is required.

    Recall, it is not the tree of knowledge. It is the tree of knowledge OF good AND bad.

    Not the tree of wisdom, or of knowing the difference between good and bad.

    The first implies that you must KNOW bad. The second is what Solomon was praised for asking for. Wisdom.

    Why was knowledge a bad thing, and why was a test even put to begin with?

    See above.

    What boggles me more is why the state of being naked is wrong to begin with...

    Well, I would state that being naked was more of a metaphor for the shame of having realized they'd done wrong. All sins exposed, so to speak.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • Knowsnothing
    Knowsnothing

    Tec, don't you think it would serve you well to know of bad? I'll give you an example. As a child, you might not be aware that walking too close to a cliff is potentially dangerous. It is a service to you to know that such an action is bad.

    As for good, well it would be great if we knew that before hand too, so that we don't fall into what is bad, you see?

    Their innocence aside, such a knowledge seems necessary, and we have a need for that as well, otherwise we are doomed to repeat the failures of our ancestors.

  • jam
    jam

    Satan is known as the lier and deceiver, when did he lie

    and when did he deceive? Iam pretty sure when he appeared

    before us human , all knew who he was.

  • Unlearn
    Unlearn

    @ Tec....

    SO, you stated Adam, Eve, and old Job.
    give me the various other exampes in the Bible where Satan was 'no friend to man'.
    name names.

    Ah, but here's the catch: no fair if it's GOD saying that Satan was being unfriendly.
    i want real, objective examples of Satan's rank and unfriendly disposition towards man.

    ready?
    GO!

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