Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?

by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tec
    tec

    Yes it could....and we could begin with not wasting money on churches and religion....money is thrown at religion and for what? So they can tell you what to do and how to live your life....biggest waste of money in my opinion. Even gambling has a possibility of some sort of reward and in NZ pokie machines support charity to some extent...LOL..but religion...what a waste of space, time and money.

    If people did not want religion, then it would not be here.

    To be noted, some people want/need that sense of community in spiritual matters, and that tends to happen a lot around a church/church activities. There are a lot of youth groups, youth conselling, adult counselling, etc, etc... and often it is all free. I mean, are community halls a waste of time and money? All those things that people do to promote community and togetherness? Bars, clubs - dog/swim/chess/sci-fi/role play/fencing/sports/crafts/etc/etc, gyms, spas, entertainment, whatever?

    Again, I'm not a religious person. I attend no building as my church, am no part of any denomination. But when those churches are fullfilling needs - spirtual, emotional, charitable, counselling, and even physical with youth activities and such... then why in the world would I say anything about them?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Do we really need to go down the route of questioning sabs sanity? and making 'mental problem' comments?

    If we are going to say that about sab...I feel we are generalising all believers as having mental problems...because they ALL come up with strange reasonings to make their belief fit what they want it to. Hell I used to make my belief fit...I don't think I had mental problems...although that is debateable I suppose.

    I think sab is just more honest in what he says and the reason he says the things he does. He doesn't try to hide his reasoning. It is out there for all to see...and I appreciate his honesty in that regard. More so than the believers who really say nothing at all, while thinking they provide eveidence of their belief.

    I may not agree with you sab...but I do see that you try to be honest.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    I may not agree with you sab...but I do see that you try to be honest.

    I could ask for no greater compliment. Thank you.

    -Sab

  • still thinking
    still thinking
    But when those churches are fullfilling needs - spirtual, emotional, charitable, counselling,..tec

    Yeah sure...I have a friend who is catholic. She has a husband and son who are alcoholics....they have been going for spiritual councelling and it was getting them nowhere....then she went to real councelling...and guess what? result!

    I fail to see how you can think a church giving spiritual councelling is beneficial for a person. Do you think the churches are correct in their spiritual beliefs?

  • still thinking
    still thinking
    Here is a good example of Christian philosophy in action right here. You are an elegant woman, Still Thinking.

    Why thank you sab....but I no longer consider myself a christian......does it still count?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Why thank you sab....but I no longer consider myself a christian......does it still count?

    I believe Christianity is an allegiance to an idea rather than a person, so yes it very much does still count. Christ is the way the truth and the life, yes, but what is Christ? Christ is truth and to know truth is more complicated that knowing any human entity, it's a spiritual connection, not a physical.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    I fail to see how you can think a church giving spiritual councelling is beneficial for a person. Do you think the churches are correct in their spiritual beliefs?

    Spiritual counciling is free which has always been it's biggest strength. Spiritual counselors have access to modern psychology and even can get a degree in it. They don't have to be separate, that's a choice. The JW elders are a perefect example of human pride hindering the progress of spiritual counciling. They didn't believe in the outside world and now look at them? Sheep without shepards.

    -Sab

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    I like the sentiment sab....thank you.

    Can we not know truth without Christ? And if we are being christian like but are denying christ...is that ultimately denying truth?

    Or is it possilble there are other truths? The truth about who we are...and isn't it possible that these truths are totally unrelated to a god or christ?

    I had a moment in time, during full on councelling, that I was standing in the garden one day and realised I didn't know who I was...It was very scary and very exhilerating all at the same time. From that point I have questioned who I am, what I believe and have tried to be totally honest with myself. I came to the realisation that I was not who I thought I was, and neither was my belief in god.

    I feel much more honest with myself now. And god has had little if anything to do with it. Does that still make me honest? If I feel there might not be a god?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    I feel much more honest with myself now. And god has had little if anything to do with it. Does that still make me honest? If I feel there might not be a god?

    There is nothing wrong with thinking there is no God because there is reason to come to that conclusion. However, the idea of God has for the majority of human existence been synonymous with law. So to not believe in God you have to be careful not to become lawless as a result. You must have order in your life and it sounds like you do which is great.

    Can we not know truth without Christ? And if we are being christian like but are denying christ...is that ultimately denying truth?

    Denying Christ is only a sin if you know what you are doing. The Roman soliders did not really know what they were doing when they were crucifying Jesus so therefore he asked God to forgive their actions. There is only one truth, not many and we all have the opportunity to connect with it or not. That connection to Truth whether the experiencer knows it or not is spiritual.

    I look at it this way. What if God lived in our time like he lived in the 1st century? What if he lived YOUR life exactly as you did and was essentially you. Would he hold the exact same opinions as you? Would he question the existence of himself like you do? I think the answer to that question is YES. To deny God in the old world was to deny the law, which is not the case today.

    Take sex before marriage for example. Is it wrong? It was part of the ancient law which was attributed to God. There is a large difference between now and then with sex and that is the advent of contraception. Any law against sex is going to be there to control the children who enter a population. The law of marriage and sex was to safeguard the humans that were born into the world that was supposed to have order, not procreation willy nilly based off sexual urges. Sex meant babies back then which is not the case today. Sex became just sex once condoms were born. So, naturally we look at sex completely differently today and sex before marriage is no longer in the law books for a reason. Human morality is progressive and is tied to the advancement of mankind.

    Now take atheism for example. In the old world it would be hard for anyone to consider an atheist a lawful person as all laws were tied to the mind of God and how humans viewed it at that time. Again, because of technology and the scientific method atheism has become much more of a viable option logically because people have more data than they did in the past. Therefore, as science studied things like love, crisis of conscience rose up and droves of people chose atheism as a life philosophy because they didn't see love in the old texts. Did they all just become mindless lawless zombies? Not at all actually they created secular humanism and are making life better for all. So atheism, just as sex before marriage, is actually not inherently bad. It's all relative which is why principle and philosophy are so important to maintain. I hope that makes sense.

    -Sab

  • tec
    tec

    Yeah sure...I have a friend who is catholic. She has a husband and son who are alcoholics....they have been going for spiritual councelling and it was getting them nowhere....then she went to real councelling...and guess what? result!
    I fail to see how you can think a church giving spiritual councelling is beneficial for a person. Do you think the churches are correct in their spiritual beliefs?

    Alcoholism is a disease. I would not recommend that someone with a disease such as that go for spiritual counselling.

    Counselling, however, helps people... and those who desire spiritual counselling or spiritual advice in their lives might choose go to a spiritual counselling. Catholic outreach programs for students (and probably adults) employs trained counsellors and psychologists to help with problems, at no charge, as part of the program.

    Peace,

    tammy

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