Is there one Bible Prophecy.....

by Phizzy 80 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible Bible prophecies have come true then?

    Christ - No way of proving any of it, all written about christ was written AFTER the "prophecies" were written, taken from an oral tradition. No proof any of it happened. All taken on faith and require a pre-requisite belief in Jesus.

    Daniel - Book of Daniel was written from an oral tradition and, IIRC, is a compilation of stories from before the 2nd century and some prophecies written down after the events occurred.

    China - I don't recall the Bible prophesying that China would have an awesome GDP.

    Har-Mageddon - Uh, that dude was on some awesome stuff. No one even knows exactly what he meant. Interpretations abound. No specific prophecies.

  • InterestedOne

    tornapart wrote:

    Bible prophecy takes faith to believe in. It's easy for it to be pulled apart by 'experts' and claimed to be untrue. A non-believer wants it to be proved beyond all doubt and claims anyone believing in it is delusional. If this is the case then there are billions of people in this category.

    First, I am tired of seeing scare quotes as in the above with the term 'experts.' Real experts do exist, and they do pull apart the subject of their expertise. It's their job. Legitimate scholarly work does exist. Those who engage in it strive to adhere to standards of academic honesty. They are not 'experts' (in quotes). They are actually experts (no quote marks needed). As for pseudo-experts or the 'experts' (in quotes) you refer to, why bother mentioning them? I don't think anyone cares about the opinions of illegitimate 'experts' in a thread asking for rigorous examination of any supposed prophecy in the bible.

    Second, regarding your comment about non-believers, I consider belief to mean thinking a claim is likely to be true. One's level of belief in a claim should be proportional to how likely the claim is to be true. If a claim seems unlikely to be true, I am less inclined to believe it. If a claim seems more likely to be true, I am more inclined to believe it. I do not demand proof beyond all doubt, but I do demand evidence or rational support to demonstrate the likelihood of the claim being true. I would be a fool to believe something without evidence or rational support.

  • EntirelyPossible

    If a claim seems unlikely to be true, I am less inclined to believe it.

    Illustrated, if my friend said he saw a dog, I am likely to believe it with no further evidence. Dogs are common, known to exist and I have owned several. If my friend says he saw an alien spaceship outside of his house piloted by unicorns, then I am less likely to believe it. They are not proven, it's a major claim and there is no evidence.

  • OnTheWayOut

    I got one! I got one!

    Genesis 6:3: My spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal, his days will be a hundred and twenty years.

    There is controversy over whether that meant that the flood would come within 120 years or that no man would ever live longer than 120 years after that statement was made by God.

    Well, regardless- since the statement was written (don't need to dispute when or by whom) no MAN has been recorded as living 120 years. The closest* was Christian Mortensen from the United States who was born in 1882 to live to the ripe old age of 115 years, 252 days.


    *Okay, several women lived longer than Christian Mortensen. Jeanne Calment from France is the only one to have lived more than 120 years- 21Feb1875 to 4Aug1997 for a total of 122 years, 164 days. Still, the "prophecy" was pretty specific that "his days" would be 120 years.

  • wobble

    I just heard a voice from Heaven, OTWO, it said "Whoops, dropped a clanger right at the beginning of that bloody book !"

    So, I shouted back "Yea ! and all the way through it

  • Vidqun

    EP, no I won't go so far as to say no prophecy came true. Seeing that most prophecies were fulfilled in the past, there is no way one can prove that they came true or not. I believe in the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise. As one scholar puts it: "For the critical scholar, however, the issue is one of probability." I think it highly improbable that the Bible, all the Bible characters, their stories, the prophets, and their prophecies, are the figments of a person's imagination. If it is all just another great con, it is certainly a most brilliant deception, worthy of intense scrutiny.

    I respect the Bible as a remarkable book, and worthy of study. Yes, it is very difficult to prove the authenticity of prophecy from secular sources. But how certain are those of their facts when they shoot it down? Unfortunately no firsthand information exists, so we all are dependant on historical sources.

    You might be surprised to know that "China" do appear in Lamsa's version (based on Aramaic texts) of Dan. 11. However, that is not the reason why I emphasize the role of China. I look for a fit of prophecy in history as well as current affairs, firm in the belief that God will point the way for his people during these difficult times.

    China do have an awesome GDP, 4 times higher than the USA. The IMF predicts that China is going to surpass the economy of the US in three years time. Then it will be the number one economy in the world. Now, being the number two economy, they are already calling the shots. Like PacMan they are gobbling up European companies because they have the cash.

    Dan. 2:28 and 11:40 mention "the latter part of the days" and "the end time" respectively. These do not fit the reign of Antioches IV Epiphanes at all, as modern scholars contend. I give you an interpretation which you can test by keeping up to date with the news. I have watched this phenomenon (called China) for over two years, and so far my observations have proved to be accurate. On the economic front, the China-Russia combination have already done a lot of damage to the West. Now the prophecy says the King of the North is going to "rule over the hidden treasures of the gold and the silver and over all the desirable things of Egypt," i.e., the world (Dan. 11:43). No, it's not another conspiracy theory, it's really happening. Time Magazine has a few interesting articles on the subject.

  • InterestedOne

    OTWO - My first thought regarding your example is to suspect that it was just an observation of nature. To say that no man will live beyond 120 years is not remarkable. I could say no cat will live beyond 40 years, but I wouldn't consider it a prophecy. It feels similar to the bible saying women will have pain in childbearing. To then say oh look it's true, just as the bible foretold, seems unimpressive.

  • OnTheWayOut

    WOW, talk about taking too seriously my suggestion. You did read the footnote, right? I knew it wasn't a genuine prophecy.

    OH, maybe I am taking your remark too seriously now.


  • InterestedOne

    I could tell you were being lighthearted. I felt like entertaining it for a moment anyway b/c it reminds me of things I've heard my JW acquaintances say, but they weren't joking.

  • tec

    Christ - No way of proving any of it, all written about christ was written AFTER the "prophecies" were written, taken from an oral tradition. No proof any of it happened. All taken on faith and require a pre-requisite belief in Jesus.

    Um... well... that is the only way it could be a valid prophecy. In order for a prophecy to be valid, then the act OF that prophecy would have to come after, right?

    But what you're saying instead is that there is no proof today that Christ came then (evidence, but no proof beyond all doubt). Yes?

    Another one is the promise to Abraham that Ishmael would also grow into a great nation... Ishmael being the brother of Israel. (Muslim and Jew) This is playing out today.



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