I just can't do this anymore

by Awen 82 Replies latest jw experiences

  • PSacramento

    Re the bibel and Christ:

    I like to use these play on Bruce Lee's famous line in the movie Enter the dragon.

    The bible is like a finger, pointing the way to God, don't concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory.

    The bible is put ONE part of the picture, one stone in the path to Christ.

    It is NOT the WHOLE of the journey, not even the whole of the "map".

    God is revealed to Us in the bible ( via ancient man's interpretation of the words of God), in the universe he created and in His LIVING Word, His Son.

    If you only focus on ONE piece, you will never have the complete picture.

  • 00DAD

    You can and you will, until the journey is over ...

    I understand there are things you can't or don't want to do any longer. That sounds like maturity and wisdom. Likewise also are your acknowledgements of the limits of your knowledge and understanding.

    Yet there is a tinge of a sense of resignation in your original post. That is a shame. To admit what we don't know is in itself knowledge. To be humble in silence before the universe is at once a terrifying yet beautiful thing. But to give up, that is a loss ... a needless one at that.

    Apparently there are many things we are not able to know. Maybe we simply weren't meant to, perhaps now or never.

    But in the end it is the journey that determines the value of our life. This is value that we take for ourselves, or not. Do we simply pass by and miss out on the greater gifts that life has to offer? Do we only take what we selfishly want and reject the rest? Do we accept the pain along with the pleasure?

    Also, what example do we set for others? We can find meaning for ourselves and we can demonstrate a life well-lived for others.

    Letting go of wrong beliefs and self-destructive behaviors are liberating. After we do that, often we find ourselves wondering why we held on so tightly and for so long. But to hold nothing dear, nothing as worthwhile is to hold the wind ...

  • AGuest

    Dearest Awen... again, the greatest of love and peace to you! Because I don't want you to think I am trying to reconvince/reconvert you... I think it might be best if we leave off discussions at this point. No, I am not suggesting "shunning" you: if YOU want to discuss things, then by all means... I am YOUR servant. But I only meant to set a matter straight, not pull you into a discussion as to faith... including your faith. I don't know if you've completely made up your mind... and heart... or not. If you haven't, then all I would suggest is that you ask. Indeed, KEEP asking (keep seeking, keep knocking...). If you have, then all I would EVER say to you is "go your way in peace," as I already have. I am not your judge - I am not anyone's judge. I don't want to be.

    But... I can't handle the lies, dear one, about the Most Holy One of Israel and/or His Son, my Lord. I swallowed SO much of that while a JW (and some before)... and I vowed... to MYSELF... that I would never take part in that, again. Part of that, though, is also speaking up when something inaccurate (or blatantly false) is said, as well. I am a loyal friend, dear one... and so I cannot sit silent when someone I love is being spoken of falsely. Again, I would not do so as to you... so, surely, you can understand that I wouldn't when it involved the Father or my Lord.

    Truly, dear one, that's it, that's all. So, please... feel free to feel as you now do - I do NOT judge you. Not FOR me to do. So long as YOU'RE okay with where you are... that's good enough for ME.

    Again, the greatest of love and peace to you... and pardon my intrusion on your personal "revelation." I will do all I can do refrain from this point on.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


  • Inkie

    Awen, concerning some of your comments to PSac, you write:

    In the Bible we are reminded time and again that it's through God's grace that we are deemed worthy of Him.

    The Bible doesn’t say that. Where did you get that? We are never deemed “worthy” of Him. We are blessed by Him, yes. We are granted mercy by Him, yes. We are granted forgiveness by Him, yes. We are granted undeserved kindness by Him, yes. We are granted relationship with Him and His Son, yes. We are granted many things by Him, but “worthy”? Never. Where did you ever get that?

    Yet we as a race have been waiting for 6,000 years for Him to act.

    No we haven’t. Where did you ever get that the human race has been waiting that long for Him to act? Very little of the human race has ever known of the Most Holy One of Israel. If any can truly be said to have been waiting, it would be Israel, but certainly not the human race. You are talking out of your emotion (and making absurd assertions) not from facts.

    I say "god" isn't worthy of us.

    Whoa!!! When I read or hear statements like this, or similar to this, I think how arrogant they sound. How blasphemous they sound. If there is an almighty God who exists (and I do believe there is), to say such things is extremely arrogant, pompous, and most supercilious.

    Many of us served god whole-souled with every bit of our strength, love and mind yet never received an answer to our prayers. We received no intervention in our lives. It has to be within God's will for him to help us.

    You write that “[m]any of us served god whole-souled.” Did we? Did we, in fact? I am reminded of the biblical text where Paul is supposed to have said of the Jews: “They have a zeal for god but not according to accurate knowledge.” Many who claim to serve God with all their ‘strength, love, and mind’ may in fact be doing so in order to establish their ‘own righteousness’ rather than seeking God’s righteousness or trying to determine “How does God want to be worshiped”? You state: “It has to be within God’s will for him to help us.” Okay . . . and? Isn’t this also true of any parent? Really? You live in your parents’ house. Do you live by rules pertaining to Johnny’s parents or Susie’s parents on the next block down the street or do you live by YOUR parents rules?

    What parent would treat their children like this?

    Interesting . . . this question presupposes that we ARE children of God from the get-go. The biblical text says that the vast majority of mankind are not children of God. The biblical text does state how to become children of God but prior to DOING THAT, we are not children of God. You believe that all mankind are children of God, in all probability, because you were told this error. But those who told you these things either were lying to you or didn’t know themselves. You seem to have been a JW for some years (I do not know) and, if so, why do you not know what the biblical text says concerning this very issue on how one isn’t a child of God from the get-go or how one does become a child of God. You seem to imply that all humanity make up children of God and you couldn’t be in more error on this.

    What human parent would allow their child to suffer only so that the parent's name could be magnified?

    Please see above. ARE YOU a child of God simply because you are human? If so, how do you know this?

    How unscrupulous is that? There is not a single parent that I know of, who when their child is sick wouldn't do everything in their power to ease their child's pain. Yet we get.....nothing.

    Again, you assume that all of us are children of God. Your assumption is in error and thus your questions lack standing. There are those here on this board who do claim to be children of God and who will tell you that God often answers them. But because you don’t seem to get answers from God, shouldn’t that tell you something? Shouldn’t that make you examine whether or not you are a son or daughter? And, if not, find out how you can become one? It would me.

    So to me god is like an abusive parent.

    How sad for you, how very very sad.

    One could say that because god created us we owe him.

    One could say that, couldn’t one.

    But even us lowly humans realize that you can't make someone love you if they have no love to give. Many of us have dealt with abusive parents and no matter how hard we tried there was no pleasing them. We were never good enough, faithful enough or whatever. God's silence all these thousands of years seem to be indicative of the same thing.

    But, Awen, it’s only a seeming silence to those who are not His children, to those who arrogate sonship to themselves, to those without God. (Ephesians 2) God declared Himself to be the Father of Israel, declared Himself to be the God of Israel, and while, yes, other people of the nations could “come” to him, and be welcomed by him, if they approached according to His laws, he did not make them (those other nations) to be a “special property” or a “holy nation” or a “people for special possession,” or “sons” as he did with Israel and now as he does with His true “chosen ones” whom He takes in to become his “sons and daughters.”

    What made the Hebrews in the Bible so good

    Nothing. Where did you ever get the impression that the Hebrews were “so good”? Seriously?

    (even though God called them stiff-necked) that God would appear in a burning bush, or part the Red Sea, speak from a windstorm?

    Even you yourself admit that He called them stiff-necked. He not only called them stiff-necked, be He also called them hard-hearted, obstinate, and said that living among them is like living among scorpions. Where did you ever get they were “so good”? Again, have you NOT READ the biblical texts that answer your questions? No, seriously? How long have you been a JW and have supposedly read and/or studied the Bible? Have you NOT READ the texts that answer your questions?

    These are just stories with no factual basis.

    So you say.

    There is no place where a "miracle" occurred that we can go back and say "look God was here." The stories in the Bible are just myths like every other religion. Almost no one serves the Egyptian gods or the Roman ones, or the Greek. Christianity is still young and I think eventually it will go the way of the Dodo bird. I say good riddance!

    Why is it that people “require” a miracle from God? Require a “sign”? ‘A wicked and adulterous generation seek for a sign.’ And who says that “Christianity” is the true religion? Christianity as it has existed throughout the centuries has NEVER been the true religion. Duh! Relationship (think: father, son, daughter, brother, sister, mother), however, with God and His Christ is another matter entirely.

  • tec

    Awen, peace to you.

    I have refrained from this post, mainly because I was not entirely certain where it was going. I think you will understand why.

    But if you are sincere, and it seems as though you are, then I wanted to say that of course it is always good to be honest with ourselves, no matter what we are feeling - doubts and all. We can't face something, or overcome it, if we deny that it is part of us. You also stated that loving one another is more important than being divided by religion, and again... OF COURSE. I completely agree with you.

    I hope you have peace in whatever choice or path you take. I also hope you find the peace that Christ can give, if you choose... but I understand if you cannot accept that right now. Despite your words here, you do sound disappointed and that tells me that you do want Him in your life.

    Perhaps you're just tired. Or frustrated. It does happen.

    What I find a personal comfort is knowing that no matter how bad I mess up... Christ is merciful, forgiving, loving and faithful - and he doesn't mess up, because He is led by His Father and by love.

    Of course I would like to offer an ear if you ever need one.

    Shelby shared a beautiful thread a while back. I will find the link and post it for you, and hope it helps... perhaps not right now, but some time.

    Peace to you,


  • tec
  • Awen

    I have nothing more to say on this topic. To continue on would be pointless and there's been enough pointlessness in my life.

    Thanks for the kind replies.

  • jay88

    Awen: IF we don't look to the Bible, how are we supposed to know anything at all about Christ?

    Aguest: The same way Moses, David, and others like them did. From Christ, himself. Through holy spirit.

    Shelby if you had said that you where born in India as a brahmin, then I would have to agree with you, but you learned of Moses, David and others like him from the bible

    Awen: So again I ask you to tell me who God and Christ are without using the Bible as a reference since as you say we shouldn't look to the Bible for the answers.

    Aguest: Please forgive me if my "correction" offended

    Great, ...forgiving yourself for pointing him to bible characters

    jay, ....chilling with Fred

  • OnTheWayOut

    I don't agree with all here, but it is very interesting:


  • AGuest
    Shelby if you had said that you where born in India as a brahmin, then I would have to agree with you, but you learned of Moses, David and others like him from the bible

    I learned OF these through what OTHERS told me, long before the Bible, dear Jay (peace to you!). That what they told me (such ones existed) was in the Bible gave me SOME "proof," yes. However, the question was not how did I learn about Moses, David, and others. It was how are we supposed to know anything about Christ. The Jews believe in Moses and David. The Muslims in Abraham and Isaac (although, they have little regard for the latter). History books, heck, Wikipedia, speaks about all of these. All of these, however, learned about the Christ... FROM the Christ. None of these had a Bible. Sure, David had "Moses"... but there was no "Psalms" or "Prophets" during his day. No "Ezra", no "Nehemiah," etc.

    Through holy spirit ALL of these learned of the Christ personally. Which was the jist of my response to dear Awen.

    Great, ...forgiving yourself for pointing him to bible characters

    I asked dear Awen's forgiveness, dear one, IF I offended him by correcting him. He asked (as you accurately quoted):

    tell me who God and Christ are without using the Bible as a reference

    which I responded to WITHOUT using the Bible, as a reference or otherwise. Not one scripture, verse... or Bible character/person.

    You don't usually misstate/misapply what I've posted as you've don't here, dear Jay. What's up with that?

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


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