My friend asked me what I was typing. I said I'm discussing science vs religion on a discussion board with someone who hears the voice of god. She asked why I would do such a thing. I laughed and said, I don't know, it's fun and a challenge. She asked what I hoped to achieve by this. I said it's not so much about determining what I believe but what others choose to. She asked why I should be concerned with what others believe. I said because I hoped to help them make a fair decision at a pivotal time in their lives and not one based on coercion, charm or wishful thinking. She said that's nice but unrealistic; people will choose to believe whatever they want. I asked her as a christian if she would agree god's name is this (shows her the name) and that he talks to people directly. She said no, that's not my belief. I asked her as a psychologist if such a one hears voices and is convinced it's god that it might be schizophrenia. She said there are tests for such things and that hallucinations are a common symptom of mental illness. I asked her if she would like to read some of this person's unique beliefs and testimony about speaking with god. She said no, not interested. I asked her if I seemed like a close minded person. She said you're nothing like that at all. She asked if I was hungry. I said yes. Love dat woman,...lol
What is "truth" - COULD Einstein Have Been Wrong?
Qcmbr - my son is about to go on WoW for an hour or so, so I will get back to you then. I didn't want you to think that I was ignoring you. I appreciate your responding. Helps me to understand you better. Helps me to feel empathy toward you, more than my earlier annoyance. The fact that you cared enough to respond (and even feel a little guilty) made a difference.
Back soon and peace,
Oh, and this really quick too:
My apologies to Tec who supports you and seeks to see the best in everyone
You don't have to apologize to me. I care for both of you... deeply. I'll get back to you a little more, in a bit too.
And I "see through your game", as well, dear Glad (again, peace to you!). It's a form of ad hominem, albeit indirect and subtle... and attempting to appear harmless. But apparently I've ticked you off... and I truly am not sure why. WHY do *I* GET to you people??? Some posts are longer, yes; many are not. It usually directly correlates with how long the post I am responding to was... because I try to address each statement made. So that there's no confusion as to WHAT I am responding to. If, then, you offer me a fairly long response... my response to that may indeed be long. That's really all that that's about. But no worries - I'm not mad at you. You don't get me... and rather than just say that you want to malign me. I don't understand that... but I don't hold it against you. I am as I am... as I have been since coming here... and still wish you peace. Truly.
what you observe is entirely compatible with a neural disorder or other abnormal state.
I have thanked you once for your attempt to diagnose me, dear Bohm (peace to you, as well). I won't do it again, though, because I really don't think you're qualified to do so.
any person suffering hallucinations could write thousands upon thousands of posts stating the hallucinations seem real.
Perhaps. However, I have not posted that they seem real. Ever.
In fact that is the problem: The hallucinations seem as real or more real than the real world.
There are no hallucinations, dear one... so there is no problem. At least, there's none for me...
It does not proove a thing, only indicate your state is persistent.
Javold (sp), Herr Doktor! It is as you say! Yeah... right...
You need to ask yourself: Why have the voice i hear NEVER said ANYTHING that could proove it was not only a hallucination?
You obviously haven't been reading (and thus not listening). I've NEVER said my Lord has never said anything that could prove he was not a hallucination. VERY to the contrary, actually. But, like the blind and deaf one you are... you haven't seen my words... nor heard them... so as to get the sense of what I HAVE stated. Totally on you, dear one...
again consider seeking help.
I've nothing to hide, dear Bohm... and nothing to fear regarding what's "going on" with me. I gave you my number. What are YOU afraid of?
I asked her as a christian if she would agree god's name is this (shows her the name)...
May I ask what was the name you showed her, dear Twitch (and peace to you, as well!)?
and that he talks to people directly.
I have never, ever said... here or anywhere else... that God talks directly to people. TO THE CONTRARY, in fact - He does NOT talk directly to people... or to ANYONE. So, you have completely misrepresented my believes to your dear friend, dear one.
She said no, that's not my belief.
It's not MY belief, either... nor have I EVER stated it was. And so, I must kindly and sincerely ask that you correct that potentially slanderous misrepresentation... and tell her the truth, that it is NOT my belief... which you would do if you were truly an honest man.
I asked her as a psychologist if such a one hears voices and is convinced it's god that it might be schizophrenia. She said there are tests for such things and that hallucinations are a common symptom of mental illness.
I do not disagree... someone who hears voices and is convinced it's god MIGHT be schizophrenic. I hear a voice... and it is NOT God's (although it was on six occasions... out of thousands, perhaps millions - I don't keep count of the latter, but since the former is so few... it would be hard not to). But I'm not schizophrenic, dear one, truly. I really am okay. Maybe not "normal"... as some define "normal" (I say that, though, because every aptitude test I've ever taken put me in the "above normal" to "way above normal" to "off the chart" categories...)
I asked her if she would like to read some of this person's unique beliefs and testimony about speaking with god. She said no, not interested.
Why would she be interested?? She is secure in her beliefs... whatever they are. Nothing I have to say is of any consequence to her. What I don't get is why it is of consequence to you.
But you could do me a favor, if you would be so kind... since you indicate that she's a christian... and ask her what she thinks Christ meant when he made the statements recorded at John 5:39, 40; 7:37, 38, and 10:1-8 and 27. You can feel free to share with her what I believe he meant, if that'll help. But I would like to know her take... as a christian... and a psychologist.
I asked her if I seemed like a close minded person. She said you're nothing like that at all.
(Smile) Well, my husband doesn't think I'm schizophrenic, crazy, or delusional, either, so... there you go! Your friend... and my husband... think you and I are just fine. What else matters? I would never even expect you to take my perception of you over that of your dear friend's. In the same vein, I am not concerned with what you think of me over what my husband does.
She asked if I was hungry. I said yes. Love dat woman,...lol
Housemates/partners/friends/significant others/spouses... can be wonderful things, can't they? I really like mine; he says (every day!) that he likes me, too! Likes... as well as loves. So, again... there you go!
Please let me know what you dear friend says about the verses, dear one. She should make sure to use a modern Bible version, though... as the KJV misstates the opening to John 5:39.
Okay, chickens... maybe we can move on, now... pending dear Twitch's lady's comments, should such be forthcoming? We've beat Mr. Ed to a bit of a pulp, I think we have. We see these matters differently. Quite differently. No worries. We all still hold that right, as far as I know... and so I have no problem respecting yours to do so.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
Okay, I'm back... after endless, Are you done yet? Answered by: After this quest, mom... just got to find this guy, mom... just...just... lol
Qcmbr, I understand where you're coming from. I understand what you are saying about why you feel as you feel about religion/faith/God, etc. I just don't agree with you (about religion perhaps... but not about faith or about God or about Christ). Many of the things that you describe (concerning the religious or the 'faithful') do not describe me. That is how I know you do not understand ME. You understand what you were. Perhaps even what some others are or were.
Now the facts point elsewhere, a new truth is evident and it is superior.
... to you.
Perhaps those words are implied by you, because it is you who makes this statement. Sometimes I don't read that into a statement though (my bad). But I could totally understand if you added (or meant to imply) those last two words. Because well, you should know what is a superior 'truth' for yourself, since only you know what a previous 'truth' for you was like.
Just as I am the only one who can make that call for myself. I, however, do not believe that truth is subjective. Truth is truth. Only our understanding of it is subjective. Only our understanding or perception of it changes. (unless of course an actual law of physics or something spiritual change... and not just our understanding of that law)
(and don't worry; though it is true that I do not like confrontation (especially not if I might hurt someone with something I want to say)... I have been confrontational with more posters than just you )
My apologies to Tec who supports you and seeks to see the best in everyone.
We should do this though, shouldn't we? For one, we might not misunderstand someone else's intent, when there was no harmful intent at all. (benefit of the doubt/ innocent unless proven guilty) And for two, we might also want others to see our best, and not our worst.
I believe much (if not all) of the same things that Shelby believes and shares. Perhaps we just have different approaches. But we basically say the same things... just in different ways.
However, I understand that some people WILL rub one another the wrong way. It happens. I have also found that many people who butt heads with Shelby originally, also end up respecting her, even if they continue to disagree with her. So her 'approach' works better for some, just as mine might work better for others, or Psac's might work better for others, etc, etc. We all have a place. We all have faults. We all have strengths.
Anyway, lots of love and peace as well... to you and your smart wife, (and of course, peace and my love to you as well, Shelby!)
Aguest: In your verbatim reply, it is funny you left out the question i actually asked you:
[Aguest: WHAT hallucinations? What have I shared here... that even equates with a hallucination?]
I cant interpret this any different than you being in a state of denial. You HAVE seen this JAHESHUA character while awake? you have heard his voice?
I am sorry if i misunderstand you and you are not suffering from hallucinations at all. but you are making it very hard for us to understand what you are hearing and seeing since you --apparently-- avoid direct questions about it.
Tec/Tammy, as always I appreciate your reasoned reply and politeness. Although you share many of Shelby ’s beliefs you do not appear to have the same passive aggressive agenda. Nor do you actively seek to wind up those who are drawn into debate with you.
What people choose to believe does not concern me but their motive for prolific posting and an endless capacity for argument does. I said that I have come to the conclusion that AGuest is feeding off people on this forum. If people are happy to allow her to do that, it is their prerogative. For vulnerable people that may not be aware, I felt it proper to share my opinion. If people disagree that’s fine, it is just my opinion. They are welcome to give me a verbal slap.
If someone presents evidence we examine that evidence. If the evidence is based on subjective mystical personal experience then at some point it is inevitable that the examination of that evidence will become personal, ad hominem . Questioning the evidence will involve examination of a person who claims to be a channel to a spirit world.
Originally, I joined this board under my real name, Trevor to come to terms with leaving the Jehovah's Witness setup. As time passed I sought to help others who have shared the same disappointment and sense of loss. My agenda has not changed but I have allowed myself to be distracted from my quest. This is something I will seek to correct.
All the best - Trevor
Trevor, you can be on more than one quest at a time, you know;) Help others... and seek truth/comfort/knowledge yourself, at the same time. The latter is why I think you open these threads, and engage in discussion with other of faith. Perhaps it is just a seeking to understand, but since we all live in this world together, that's kind of necessary to our mutual benefit and survival.
I do agree, however, that thinking of/helping others as a priority does tend to keep us grounded.
If someone presents evidence we examine that evidence. If the evidence is based on subjective mystical personal experience then at some point it is inevitable that the examination of that evidence will become personal,
ad hominem. Questioning the evidence will involve examination of a person who claims to be a channel to a spirit world.
It might be inevitable, but I don't think its right. The judgment of personal evidence or empiracle (sp) evidence... should not be based on the mannerism of the person presenting it. That is 'ad hominem', right? I can't quite put my finger on why this bothers me... perhaps because it seems like an attack on a person's nature, in order to be able to dismiss what that person has to say, because one does not want to believe what that person has to say.
But as I said... some people do just rub each other the wrong way. Often (not always), I find that it is completely personal.
Peace to you, of course, and if you are better for sticking to your original agenda, then I wish you well on that agenda!