What is "truth" - COULD Einstein Have Been Wrong?

by AGuest 197 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec

    As regards the comment made about getting me arse back to da tunderin jehovas if I was thinking der was safety in numbers, why would I be doin that? They got no frenz or balls eh? ;)

    You honoring, or making fun of newfies here?




  • AGuest

    Is there truly a point in continuing these interchanges (peace to you all!). My "intelligence" says, "Nope, no reason; they don't get it and probably never will." My HEART, however, says "Who knows? Maybe they will, maybe they won't... but don't give up on 'em." My Lord says, "Is it truly you who judges, chooses, or decides, child? Is it not I who can read the hearts of man?" Hmmmm... two out of three says to continue. Soooo...

    I will start with you, dear Q (peace to you!), if that's okay, since your comments require less response, so that I can give my full attention to dear Twitch (peace to you, as well!) in a separate post:

    Sadly no supernatural wake up call from AGuest's Christ :( though at 530 the holy terrors aka 'the kids' descended into my bedroom and we did indeed converse upon many topics related to the themes of getting back in bed and not bouncing on my chest.)

    You weren't expecting such a call, dear one. Couldn't have been. You don't believe there is anyone to MAKE such a call. We discussed that, remember?

    The one who has chosen AGuest alone out of the world through whom to reveal his ever so important name

    I am certainly not alone, not at all. I am more... ummmmm... "vocal", shall we say, that most of the others... and certainly more foolish (which I openly admit), so you're bound to hear more from me. But that's the only reason (although, it would make sense, would it not, that he would reveal his name to someone who will further reveal it... and not hide it or keep it to themselves. Mayhaps my "big mouth" was instrumental in his decision TO reveal it to me...).

    ( though prophetess Shelby has one disciple now ;)

    Sigh... No one follows me, dear one. Never may that happen. I can't lead anyone. I don't WANT to lead anyone. People can be a HUGE responsibility. Some are pretty "needy"... and I just don't have energy... and sometimes don't have [sufficient] love. Leading people requires a whole lot of... well, love, if not ego. Leading ISRAEL... is whole 'nuther thing altogether! I personally could never do either and that really is the truth.

    has utterly failed myself plus several billion people.

    Failed you? I don't know if I would say he failed you. Rather, that it is you who are failing him... and, sadly, yourself... and your household... in the process. I mean, I don't know if you realize this (and I think you don't), but as the head, you ARE considered the "priest" of your household. In that light, YOU can offer up supplications not only on behalf of yourself... but your wife and children. As Job did. As Abraham did. As Isaac... and many others did. You can even go further and ask on behalf of your parents, siblings, and other members. As Rahab did. So, the failure is not with my Lord, whom you don't even believe exists, dear one. That one belongs to you...

    AGuest - your Christ has fairly modest marketing aims it seems

    Absolutely! What in the world makes you believe differently? I will tell you: the [very] false teachings of religion... particularly the WTBTS...

    and is somewhat outcompeted by the Jesus guy who actually is proclaimed as God.

    Who? Oh, you mean that "guy" that everyoe's following on the "broad and spacious road"? My Lord isn't in competition with that one, dear one. He isn't even thinking about that one... or those who follow him. His concern is SOLELY with HIS household (which, as high priest of that household, it SHOULD be)... which are, as dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!)... few. His "road" is the narrow one, dear Q... accessed by him, the "narrow gate"... and "few are the ones finding" that gate... and thus, that road. Surely, you remember THAT, yes?

    Maybe it's time for AGuest ( and for sanity's sake tec as well ) to wonder which of these scenarios is likely:

    Well, let's take a look...

    1 - A Beautiful Mind scenario

    If only. I would have tried to blow a whole in Einstein's theory oh, so long ago. May have even succeeded. So, nope, not this one...

    2 - A Deceiving Spirit happily feeding misinformation

    Wait... there are "deceiving spirits"... that can speak to me (i.e., feed me information), but neither the Most Holy One of Israel nor His Son, the Holy One of Israel... to whom such spirit BOW DOWN... canNOT speak? To me or ANYONE? Jeez, dear Q... that is SO reminiscent of WTBTS teaching ("The demons have POWER!" - no, they don't - "God/Christ do NOT speak!" - yes, they do - "If you're hearing "someone" then it's DEMONS!" - no, it's not). Seriously? No, this isn't even close... not at ALL...

    [And good GAWD... when are even you atheists going to let go of all of that tired, unfounded, very false, absolutely STOOPID WTBTS thinking??? Let... it... GO... man! ALL... of... it!]

    3 - The most powerful being in the cosmos's personal assistant is on pop over (at night) and chat terms with -only one in the world -Internet enabled lady in California directing her to one awesome but niche chat forum.

    This is closer than the previous, except (1) it's not at night, but pretty much 24/7 (as with my statement regarding his reading hearts, above); however, sometimes when I am asleep he wakes me up... and I don't always sleep at night; and (2) I am not the only one in the world; true, their aren't a WHOLE lot of folks, but I am most certainly not the only one. But you got the "awesome but niche chat form" part right on!

    4 - Someone is telling porky pies

    LOLOLOLOL! VERY Cute. LOLOLOL! Not the right scenario, but cute wording! I will have to use that (with your permission, of course), when I finally have grandkids to use it on!

    Should J. turn out to indeed be leader of the Jah Armies I will happily grovel and snivel before him and I will undoubtedly be his slave

    I have absolutely NO doubt, dear one, as to you... many others... and both (sniveling/groveling and slave)...

    (whether I want to be or not - I don't argue with a horde of pissed angels )

    And well you shouldn't... although I don't think PO'd angels will be the reason so much as (1) seeing my Lord as he really is, which will humble even the most egotistical, arrogant, and self-revering bastar... ummmm... person ever to live; (2) the revelation and knowledge that you didn't know a single THING after all; and (3) gratitude... for his mercy and that you finally DO get to see and know...

    but in the meantime - and in a vain attempt to pretend I'm sticking to the thread topic -

    Pretending, eh? Yet, this isn't the thread topic. METHINKS there's more to your... ummmm... "attempt" than meets the eye, dear one. Than meets YOUR own "eye". We shall have to wait and see...

    I will stick to the truth as defined by the material world that is humble enough to interact with me and more immediately important can be fried and put on toast this fine morning.

    That makes sense to me, truly. You are yet solely of the flesh... and so it is that which appeals to the senses of the flesh that "do it" for you. No worries. You're not alone; there are millions who feel as you do. And, of course, if MILLIONS feel a certain way, believe a certain "truth"... well, it dang must be so. Right?

    Enjoy your breakfast, dear one... and, as always, PEACE TO YOU!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


  • AGuest

    And now, to dear Twitch (good morning and peace to you, as well!):


    Twitcheroonie! Good morning! How's every little thing in your neck of the woods? Overcast and "ugly" here (I hate that...). Lot's to respond to, so I guess I'd better get to it, yes?

    that's speculation on your part that she would see or hear what you do. Jesus is just alright for her.

    No, no, I was only agreeing what YOU stated, that she'd never hear the name. I said that I didn't she would have. That's because she probably only knows what she learned in her Bible... and for now she'll only find "Jesus" there. At least, as far as the words on the pages. And it's totally alright with ME that it's alright for HER. Why would I have a problem with what SHE believes? Right now, only you seem to (at least, in comparison to what I believe)...

    And if research is all it takes to recover the true name of jesus, why is it only you that seems to know it?

    If I said to you that others... many others... know it, but that, since, say, the 3rd-4th century BCE the "scribes" removed it (considering it "too sacred" to utter because it contained the name of the Most Holy One of Israel in it... and over the past couple millenia or so, the Harlot has pulled out many stops to suppress it, in order to get you to follow HER... would you believe me? I mean, it's not like it's the only thing tampered with, removed, falsified, or suppressed... is it?

    Surely there have been and are many theologians over the millennia who've dedicated their life to unravelling the mystery,

    Theologians dedicate themselves to justifying... and pushing... their religion and its leaders. Once they realize that they can't openly oppose the religion (without being expelled, excommunicated, disfellowshipped... or perhaps even killed, literally), they back off. Those that don't... either disappear, literally or into obscurity... or undergo character assassination (such as often attempts to occur here)... being labelled as "crazy" and such, etc. The masses, then, do as they always do... as they did when my Lord walked in the flesh: follow the false christs/prophets. Allow such ones to use them to stir up frenzies against those who speak the truth about these things. Which such leaders do whenever ANYONE openly speaks the truth... about ANYTHING they don't want "out there."

    Heck, look at Socrates. So many look to him and quote him and use his "method" of teaching. Yet, few have any idea WHAT he was telling the Senate... and WHY: he was a servant of the True God. And he told them that it was The God who had sent him TO them... to tell them the things he did. One man. Not many men. And they couldn't handle that. Forced him to drink to his own death. Why? To shut him up.

    Nothing new under the sun, dear one, truly.

    but only here and only by you is it known? Amazing really.

    Please see above. You are mistaken, truly. And the only reason you are is because those who were SUPPOSED to tell you what I am telling you... didn't. Because THEY don't know... although they seat themselves in a seat that says they SHOULD. According to THEM (and apparently, you believe them), the DO know. So, then, you have to ask yourself why, if they do, they don't tell YOU.

    Ah, you totally missed the point. Again. My point is that to those who do not believe in spirits, much less hear their voices, it's irrelevant if it's Jesus, your name for Jesus, Jah, the holy spirit or Casper the Friendly Ghost.

    Ah, yes, perhaps I did miss that point... but only because we're still having this discussion. Apparently, since you are still asking questions ABOUT it, it IS relevant. To YOU. Otherwise, why do you even CARE what name I use? Why do you even care that I use a name at ALL... let alone which one?

    But I don't expect you to be objective regarding this point obviously.

    I'm sorry you feel that way - I truly am trying to be as objective as possible about this whole topic. True, I am sure I inject SOME subjectivity, since I use the name. But I am not trying to be persuasive based on that. I am simply sharing the TRUTH... because it is the TRUTH.

    So every christian who calls on jesus is following a false god?

    Ummm... seeing as that, in reality, there is no "Jesus"... you yourself have said it. "Jesus" is the physically strong, strapping, sometimes blonde-haired/blue-eyed (although sometimes not), tall, fairly good-looking "guy" in the paintings... and hanging on a cross... sometimes behind/above an altar... who died... and is pretty much still dead (although resurrected)... who doesn't speak to anyone... or actually lead anyone anywhere... and who is third in command after God and "The Holy Spirit"... yet, is also "God and the Holy Spirit", etc. He is not only the "Holy" but also the "Most Holy"... and for some, not only the SON of God... but also God. For some, he's higher than... while at the same time being lower than... his earthly mother, Mary.

    He condemns the poor (because everyone knows the poor are lazy and/or cursed), blesses the rich (and, these days, famous - particularly the famous. Ever see a pop/rock/hip hop/actor/TV personality without a "cross" around their neck? Very few... very few)... "takes" babies, children, and loved ones from their families to go live with him "in heaven"... condemns homosexuality, interracial marriage, biracial offspring, heck, various races... and pretty much anyone and anything that isn't Anglo-American... hates Jews... and considers America the "land flowing with milk and honey" (i.e., the "promised land").

    He (and his Father) sanction wars... including those between his own people, and definitely against Abraham's seed (Jews and Muslims)... although the former are his brothers (through Isaac) and the latter brothers of his brothers (through Ishmael). Rather than GIVING his life... so that one can escape "Gehenna"... he SENDS people to Gehenna, indeed revels at that prospect. He feels it's "okay" to "hate" one's neighbor, and CERTAINLY one's enemies... and not only believes that an "eye for an eye" is right and just, that anyone who does NOT seek vengeance is weak and cowardly.

    And I could go on. But... if folks want to see... and follow "Jesus"... I say more power to 'em. As for me and MY household... we serve the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH)... who is the Holy Spirit and Son of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. For US, there is no other Shepherd... Teacher... Leader... Way... or Truth. Because HE is the "resurrection" and the [Tree of] Life, the TRUE Vine, the Root of Jesse... Sprout. Not "Jesus".

    Don't be sorry, it matters not to me, but it might to those who believe in jesus.

    It might. Should I be concerned? The truth is the truth, dear one. Wouldn't being concerned that speaking such truth might "matter" to those who believe in "Jesus" put me in the... ummmm... same "boats" as the "cowards?"

    Again, semantics for which a distinction is not a concern, they are the same for all intents and purposes, if love and peace are the ultimate goal.

    If love and peace were the ultimate goal for "Jesus"... and his followers... I wouldn't have been able to list the things I did above. Which things win out over love and peace MUCH more often among those who follow "Jesus," does it not?

    Essentially, you are saying that those who follow jesus by that name and not yours do not progress spiritually.

    That's how it appears (although, my definition of "spiritually" is probably different than your definition...)

    By what authority do you judge the progress and therefore the quality of others' spirituality?

    No judging, not at all. Just an observation... you know, due to the "evidence": they often can't see/hear (as well as they could, if they transcended the flesh)... often complain about not having their prayers answered... often don't understand even basic features of the kingdom, kingship, priesthood... often don't understand who/what spirit beings are... who the Father and Son are and their relationship to one another... don't know who THEY are... or why they are chosen... can't explain holy spirit, the Holy Spirit (often don't even know who that IS)... or their "anointing"... can't describe the spirit realm... or its relation to the physical realm...

    So, again, just based on observations and evidence. Again, though, you're probably thinking of "spirituality" differently... from the basis of what religion teaches (piety, etc.). I have learned that "spiritual"... and thus, "spirituality"... has to do with the SPIRIT... the being housed IN the vessel of flesh... which enslaves such being. And no, this really ISN'T semantics - it's the world's misunderstanding of what "spirit" IS...

    You can call it whatever you want if it gets you to the same place and many do, in my opinion.

    Interesting. More religious/WTBTS "herd" thinking... and acquiescence, IMHO...

    But look at the piety, nay, hubris on you,..

    If you wish to think that, dear one. I am only sharing the truth with you. If you interpret that as piety OR hubris... what can I say? Nothing more than perhaps you're not ready... nay, able... to handle the truth. And that's okay. Most aren't... and based on what YOU believe... that shouldn't be a surprise to you...

    A Ford is an automobile. A Chevy is an automobile. That they are not the same make or model is not the point.

    No, really, that IS the point: both God and Christ are spirits. But they are DIFFERENT spirits. So, yep, that's the point...

    The analog is valid, it asserts what was stated above in that whatever name you call it, it's still an invisible spirit and even more so in that those who drive Fords are convinced it's better than a Chevy.

    Anyone who's convinces that a Ford (Fix Or Repair Daily) is better'n a Chevy... doesn't know cars... or hasn't driven a Chevy. If so, they would KNOW the two are different, in MANY ways... although similar in many ways (they're both cars, have four tires, a steering wheel, windshield, seats, etc.).

    Which is it? Do you choose your own beliefs or not over expert testimony of your human peers?

    I choose my beliefs based on the evidence given ME. My human "peers" still believe, IMHO, and so provide expert testimony... that the world is flat (or at least limited to that which is physical). I disagree... based on MY observations of the evidence (the shape of the "horizon", etc., or what I hear my Lord say about it - and since he was there when it was FORMED...well...)

    Of course you've rejected what those who know much about evolution and the various scientific fields regarding it have said regarding the evolution of man in favour of your personal revelations.

    And you have a problem with that, because...?

    Hmmm. Look at that. The spin doctor is in and will see you now.

    No spin. I spoke rashly... and was reminded that I spoke wrongly and needed to correct my rash statement. If I was trying to "spin" anything, why correct at all? Why not let it stand? YOU wouldn't have known the difference...

    Am I to understand god "attempted" to speak to people on Mount Sinai, to Moses? Did he or did he not? Did he fail? Because if he didn't succeed, it means you can "hear" him but Moses (and perhaps other holy men) couldn't, yes?

    To elaborate further on what dear tec stated:

    The Most Holy One of Israel told Moses to congregate the people at the base of Mt. Sinai because rather than continuing to speak THROUGH Moses, He was going to come down and speak to them Himself, directly. In order to this to occur, however, He told Moses and Aaron that (1) the people needed to be ceremonially clean for three days, and (2) that no one could TOUCH the mountain, not even an animal (because it would first be sanctified/cleansed and touching would render it unclean again)... lest they die.

    So, on the third day the people were congregated; however, during God's descent there was loud thunder and lightening, a heavy cloud... smoke... and a very loud horn... all of which caused the people to begin trembling in fear (because they lacked faith - so, it was loud and noisy, so what? He wasn't coming down to slaughter them, but to SPEAK to them!).

    So, any way, JAH did literally descend upon the top of Sinai (and although I didn't see this particular descent, I did see His previous one, where He initially spoke to Moses... and it was a fascinating event... and not what you may THINK it was, at all, but something that actually makes sense, in light of what we know TODAY!). He called Moses to come up for few more instructions and Moses went up. He told Moses to tell the people not to try to push forward to take a look - it wouldn't be done that way - and that the priests who had spoken with Him before had to be clean... and then gave Moses the "commandments" that he was to give the people.

    While all of this is going on, the people are falling out, weeping, complaining... terrified... because of the thunder, lightening, fire, cloud, horn, noise, etc. Basically, to THEM, it was like a volcano about the erupt while a loud horn was blaring. They couldn't handle it. So, when Moses comes back down and says, "Okay, here are the rules, folks. Get ready, 'cause we're all going up, now"... they people refused to God. They told Moses they were too afraid that they might die. Moses told them to NOT be afraid, they WOULDN'T die, JAH was just putting on a show to show them how serious He was about them heeding His commandments to not sin [against Him and one another]. But they still refused. Instead of going up themselves, they sent Moses FOR them.

    THAT is how Moses became their MEDIATOR. THEY chose him as such, NOT God.

    And it is the same, today: the PEOPLE are choosing their religious leaders... who have given them the name of "Jesus" (and so, behind which they hide)... as their mediators... NOT the One appointed by GOD, His Son, the Holy One of Israel, Jah eShua, HIS Chosen One.

    Ok, so we've determined that you hear god speak. Have you ever asked him for advice or direction? Have you ever received an answer?

    God, no. My Lord, His Son, yes. Early on, a LOT of questions... and for advice/direction. Now, not so much - I just try to listen FIRST... then I don't HAVE to ask. It's not like he's sitting waiting for us to ask questions - he is ALWAYS speaking, giving the answers. We just don't always LISTEN. And so, I receive[d] answers, yes, both when I asked... and when I don't.

    you've clarified things perfectly.

    WHEW! Glad to see you state THAT! LOLOLOLOL!

    Who are these others exactly? Is there someone else here who wants to testify?

    I do not have the freedom to name them, unfortunately, dear one. It is not my place to do that. If one wants to bear witness to the truth as it relates to them, so be it. If they don't, so be that, as well. You must keep in mind, however, that not everyone is even aware that this particular discussion is going on. Like you and me, they don't open EVERY thread. Given the title... and that I don't have followers... some may not even know of your... ummmm... "invitation". Surely, you understand that?

    What exactly does god say when he's not speaking to you?

    Here's the thing: there really is no silence in the spirit realm (they don't sleep, etc., so...). Thus, when John recorded that there WAS silence "for half an hour", that was a BIG deal. HUGE. Which is why it was worthy of recording. Things are going on there 24/7 (by our time). In addition, what is being "spoken" there is not English - so, unless I am PRIVY to the events... I have no idea what is being SAID. It is only when my Lord opens my ears... and as to the things they are opened TO... that I know what is being said.

    Hence the idea of getting a second opinion, which I trust you would do, but haven't as regards this particular issue.

    Thus far, I've had no reason to get a second opinion. I mean, I agree with the FIRST opinion: there's nothing wrong with me. I am not hypochondriatic - LOLOLOL! Well, not regarding this - LOLOLOL!

    Do you think I'm not just "relating" it? How could you know and thus decide?

    C'mon, Twitch... you're stating YOUR opinion, not a doctor's. Let's stay serious, shall we?

    We both know you're not "normal" by any means, so no issue here.

    Nor are you, according to your words. Should we be? Why is "normal" so desirous? I get it that most are "normal". Most are "C" students, too. Most are "religious". So what?

    Probably not but as I said, you or anyone likely wouldn't think there's anything wrong if there was.

    IF there was. There isn't. Different, perhaps, but not wrong. Certainly not "better" - only different...

    I know I don't hear voices other than my own which is what we're talking about. So I can't be unaware of a condition whose symptoms I don't have.

    Sure you can. You could have any manner of illness for which symptoms haven't manifested... making you "unaware" of the "condition." Same thing, here.

    Aren't you the one who's telling the world about what IS, in terms of nomenclature, i.e. what jesus' name really IS, what is true in the bible and what ISn't, what IS TRUTH?

    The world? No. The Household of God... and those who go with it... yes. Now, that a few others are apparently interested in what I tell such ones...

    I say there's another side to all of it and that it's possible, even likely, that there's another explanation based on accumulated knowledge of the subject by doctors and experts in the field.

    But, dear one... who are YOU... to "say"??? You're just someone on an Internet forum... like me. If you don't think you should take MY position seriously, why in the world do you think I should take YOURS seriously? Isn't that... wait for it... hypocrisy?

    So my assumption that you haven't been tested for this particular issue is in fact true. Which makes your display of chagrin all the more interesting, bordering on misdirection. An honest answer to a simple question would've been easier methinks.

    I disagree. I was being accurate - the tests were not FOR that, specifically, no, but the issue did come up. I didn't hide it. And the doctor(s) asked about it. And I told them. And they didn't think it was anything other than a "quirkiness"...

    So you do in fact believe those who are expert in their field, doctors even?

    Sometimes... most times... yes. All the time... no. Heck, if I did that, I'd probably be dead. Because the experts in their field didn't think I was a diabetic for close to 5 years... then wouldn't admit I wasn't a Type II but a Type I. Certainly, my son (who they diagnoses with abdominal cancer - not) would be. So, "expert" is, IMHO, subjective... prompting me to be unable to believe ALL the time. My Lord, however, has never given me reason NOT to believe HIM, so...

    Give me some time to find the references. Much to wade through.

    Take all the time you need. May I consider your failure to return with such in, say, a week... as "evidence" that you were unable to find ("discover") such?

    No confusion on my part, I said it, not you. My assertion is that many, if not most people believe in jesus, allah or whatever without having or needing to hear voices, by virtue of faith.

    This is true...

    Is there faith any less deserving or sincere if they don't?

    I would say no, but I would also say that if they're calling on/praying to one who DOESN'T speak... they most probably WON'T hear a voice... or voices... regardless of HOW much faith in that one they HAVE. I mean, it's kind of logical, isn't it?

    One would think many here and all over the world have faith.

    Faith in whom? "Jesus"? "Jehovah"? "Yahweh"? Allah"? "Mohammed"? "Mary"? "Buddha"? "Brahma"? "Vishu"? Then THESE should answer them. Some say they do.

    One would think many are sincere in their faith and have asked the lord for direction and guidance.

    What "Lord"? "Jesus"? "Jehovah"? "Yahweh"? Allah"? "Mohammed"? "Mary"? "Buddha"? "Brahma"? "Vishu"? Then these should provide such direction and guidance. And perhaps they have, if the conduct around the world and throughout time of these who call on such is any indication...

    By your comment, you're saying that ANYONE can hear YOUR Lord's voice if they have faith.

    That he speaks... that it is him speaking... that HE is the Son of God... yes. I am not any more privileged than anyone else. The "Door" is "open" to ALL who wish to enter THROUGH him...

    So the question is, why isn't this more common then?

    Where are you getting that it would BE "more common"... as opposed to it would be only a few???????

    Why doesn't everyone who has sincere faith not hear it?

    Everyone who has SINCERE faith, DO hear... is my understanding...

    Or is it that their faith is not sincere? Or that they aren't asking the "right" spirit?

    Either or both, dear one. Actually, faith (and certainly sincerity)... in the right spirit...

    I would hope that anyone who is in the same position would [go to a hospital vs church, if they hear a voice]. If god is truly with them, they've nothing to fear or lose.

    EXACTLY! Which is why I didn't/don't hide what is occurring with ME... from anyone. You... OR doctors...

    We are in the world, for one; I don't consider this board to be anywhere or anything else

    Yes. But being IN it... and being PART of it... is not the same thing. Spirit beings come IN the world (and go back out) all the time. Yet, they are no part OF the world...

    And again, it's not about you, as I know anything I say won't change your mind or beliefs.

    I don't think you DO know this, truly. Else, why continue?

    No, mine is not the opinion of a doctor but that doesn't negate the possibility that it's true that someone who hears voices has a mental condition.

    It does not negate that possibility, no. Any more than YOUR lack of belief negates the POSSIBILITY that what I am sharing IS true.

    My ego can handle what I've just said, can yours? I have nothing to lose by being wrong in this matter, do you?

    My ego can... and I've nothing to lose, either. If am I right, then perhaps my household will benefit; if I am wrong, well, according to YOU... I am just wrong. Nothing will "happen." Given that I was utterly wrong in what I told others regarding the WTBTS... and being as I was wrong in what I believed BEFORE even associating with them... being wrong doesn't frighten me. I'm a mom and a wife, dear one. We eat wrong for breakfast... So long as one can admit... and, where necessary and able... apologize... for being wrong... what's the big deal? What is there to BE "lost"?

    LOL, yes of course, you have the absolute, eternal TRUTH. Of this, there is no doubt, lol.

    Well, I am certainly glad you've finally come to THAT revelation, truly - LOLOLOL! (Although, it's more like HE now has ME...)

    Please, tell me how it is. I'm just a dumbass xjw who has no critical thinking, confidence, integrity, honesty or right to an reasonable opinion and alternate explanation of a subject that is continually engaged, even perpetuated by you,

    Hmmmm... sounds a little like what you think of me, does it not? What's the word, again? Hypocrisy...

    lmao. Do you care what the people at church or any other christians think of you?

    You're asking rhetorically, right? Because I think we've THAT horse so to death that even a resurrection shouldn't bring it back...

    If you didn't care what people thought of your beliefs and thereby the TRUTH, why post about it at all?

    Because it IS the truth... and because I am grateful to the One who GIVES it to me, who gave his life FOR mine. Why aren't you GETTING this? Another horse beaten to a pulp...

    And there's the WTS card again. Oooh, that hurts. I guess you're not above throwing low blows, eh righteous one?

    Oh, wait... throwing WTS is meant to "hurt"... but calling one names/insinuating they're mentally unstable isn't? Hypocri... well, YOU know the word...

    That's ok, I've been called worse by better people ;)

    Likewise... which is why I don't take offense when YOU do it - LOLOLOLOL! (Though I don't quite think calling on an exjw is quite the same as calling them "crazy"...).

    Lets say for argument's sake I never was a JW, what would you deem a suitable insult for me then?

    Since I have no intent to insult, I truly cannot say. That you TOOK my WTS reference to your conduct as an insult is... interesting. In light of the similarities. You know...

    Do you think those who've never been a JW might have a similar opinion on these matters?

    Absolutely! Many do... and "voice" them here.

    You're posting on a worldwide discussion board that you hear voices not your own. Do you think it's reasonable to expect you won't get opinions about it such as we've been discussing?

    Do YOU think it's reasonable to voice such opinions and not have the target of them tell you they don't agree? I mean, are you seriously expecting me to go, "Wait... oh, ummmm... you know, what, dear Twitch... maybe you're right - maybe I'm hallucinating/crazy/schizo... and so I AM gonna march right down to my doctor and tell her to have a look see and if she "finds" anything to get rid of it right away! Because SURELY you're right... and I'm just trippin'! So, THANK you for your very accurate... albeit from the comfort of your computer chair... diagnosis!" Seriously?

    No, I don't think it's reasonable not to expect such opinions - I do expect them. I just marvel that those who have them don't like it when the same is done to/said of them... or get all "testy" when their opinions are dismissed.

    If you truly didn't care what others think of you and your beliefs, why even bother engaging me or anyone on it?

    Oh, sorry if I wasn't clear - because it is the TRUTH. And I don't like just ignoring/blowing others off. Although I have/will... but I kind of like you (and kind of like engaging with you), so...

    Let 'em think as they will, I have no control over it so it's not a concern to me.

    Wait - Did YOU just say that???

    Maybe I'll sue their collective crazy ass if it causes me grief, lol.

    Nahhh, save your money... and your peace of mind. They're not worth it. Anymore than my getting upset over what a few armchair psychologists think of and opine about me is...

    I'll side with the billions who do not know or even care who they are or what they think. But if a JW (or anyone) would like to take tests and compare notes, I'd gladly be up for the challenge to see who's really mental and who isn't.

    No one's suggesting anyone take any tests but you, dear one. They don't care what you think anymore than you care what they think. Why is that different here?

    Oh, wah. Somebody's calling you names. I thought you said you didn't care what people said or thought?

    I was only making a point; however, your comment suggests to me that the "discussion" is beginning to deteriorate...

    In my first post on this thread, I asserted that this is not about discussing the "TRUTH" of Einstein's theory or science per se as it is so much about your subtheme of what you consider TRUTH and how TRUTH is objective unless it has to do with your beliefs, which is absolute and eternal TRUTH. Subtle preaching is still preaching and if it's good enough for you, well, all's fair in the public arena, is it not?

    But I disagree with you. YOU (and others) took it into a "preaching" realm, not me. And I truly had NO intention of doing so. I laid no "trap." I just wanted to know how OTHERS thought about it. Because... I don't THINK like others... and in order for me to UNDERSTAND others (regardless of whether they want to understand ME)... I need to know what they THINK... WHY... and HOW. Asking questions helps one do that...

    Now, again, because of YOUR preconceived bias... you ASSUMED something was afoot... that was NOT. And so, rather than wait and SEE where I was "going"... YOU steered the "boat" in the direction YOU wanted it to go. And are blaming that on ME:

    "Well, SA, I KNEW you were gonna go there at some point anyway, so I just hurried you up!"

    YOU chose... and dictated... the direction... you and a few others. But you have NO clue as to where I was going - you did not give me the benefit of the doubt but only assumed. Do I need to quote the little diddy about what "assuming" does?

    I submit for perusal the following statements:
    T: Shelby You did choose the word TRUTH in the title here for a reason, no? Or is it just a coincidence? ;)
    S: No, for a reason, dear Twitch (again, peace to you!): as shown in my question "What is 'truth'". I did not give my usual response anywhere (that "Christ is the Truth"). I didn't even go there... because that wasn't what this thread was about. Unfortunately, the "blinders" that so many now where (most probably due to their previous experience with religion)... didn't allow some to see that.
    S: I am truly sorry that so many took the title of the thread so literally (peace to you all!). It really wasn't about Mr. Einstein... or his theory... or the speed of light. It was about what we believe to be "the truth"... at what point... what is it when it's "no longer" the "truth". What was it before? It was about whether truth was something that is constant... versus something that changes.
    T: as well as this;
    I mean, from my perspective Christ is the [only] Truth... but given the progression of the thread, I tried to stay away from that, for now.

    So perhaps my assertion regarding the true purpose of this thread is not so wrong after all.

    Huh? I had NO intention of going to my Lord as being the truth. It really was about what IS truth, which a few eventually commented on. My last statement includes the words "for now"... because YOU and others were taking the thread in a direction where I would not be ABLE to not go there. So, I delayed it as long as I could... because it was NOT where I wanted to go. I just wanted to understand how others define "truth"... particularly in light of what I went through in the WTBTS, when I would ask the "elders", "Now, wait, in nineteen oh this, THIS was "truth", but in nineteen oh that, THIS was... and it's different... and now, "truth" is THIS? How can it be "truth" ALL of these times... when one negates the other??" Given that my [way] of thinking is apparently SO different from some HERE... I wanted to understand.

    The problem (that you and few others don't see), dear Twitch, is that you even do that those who DO believe as you do, agree with you. Dear Nickolas (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!) started a thread in which he was attempting to UNDERSTAND how others COULD believe as they do... what they're THINKING was "like." And you all derailed that, too. Utterly disrespecting him... and his RIGHT to try and understand, even if he didn't AGREE... in the process. It was emabarassing to me... that some of you are SO chagrined over YOUR bad experience with religion/the WTBTS... that you won't even ALLOW others to TRY and understand anything YOU don't want them to.

    Again, smacks of the WTBTS' methods of "throttling all truth... unless it comes through them." Thus, that "h" word comes to mind... again...

    It's so clear to me now why you throw around the labels misrepresentation, dishonest and hypocrite. My but you are a slippery one. Like teflon, even ;)

    Okay, like now I've gone from being crazy... to being, what, a serpent?? Oh, my gawd...

    Oh, and you don't have strongly rooted preconceived bias?

    I don't think so, dear one, as my thinking is still being formed. But I can see how some might disagree. Even so, it wasn't ABOUT my thinking - I posted what I thought. I was about me trying to understand what... and HOW... OTHERS think on the matter...

    Lessee, both of us were "christians", both of us were in a cultish religious group, both of us revered the "anointed" ones, both of us believed in absolute TRUTH, both of us used special terms and language, both of us preached our beliefs, both of us rejected opposing viewpoints outright without consideration of reason.

    Hmmmm... not quite: I did not revere "anointed" ones (the contrary, I perceived them as servants and "lesser" ones and thought revering them would be uncomfortable, if not insulting, for them - it was (the former) for mer...). I did not believe the WTBTS was the "truth" - I believed they had "some" truth... more than any other religion out there, but not that they WERE the truth. Because (1) they often misstated/misquoted/misued verses, and (2) they're doctrines often changed. And that was the conundrum for me, initially... which prompted me to ask THEM "what is truth." And I never rejected opposing views outright, regardless of reason - surely, THAT would have been folly. Rather, I would do as I do here: ask for the person's take/understanding... then give mine. Which made for very interesting (and quite fun, actually) Bible studies with others. I didn't do "boring" Bible. Still don't...

    However, one of us broke away from those preconceived ideas completely.

    Yep, me!

    The other just found new names and a slightly difference version of the TRUTH.

    Yep, you. You call it "human evolution," and other such "new" names...

    So really, which of us is more like the WTS? lmao

    The one of us that still ACTS like them... that still succumbs to hypocrisy, character assassination, and "shutting up the kingdom of the heavens before men"... which are their GREATEST (and most heinous) attributes...

    If you say so.

    I say so - (you're talking to me...)

    If you think so.

    I think so. Surely (hopefully), this can't (won't) go on much longer...

    You'll have to excuse me if I don't see (or hear) what you do.

    Absolutely! No worries at all on my part! Question is, though, are YOU okay with it?

    And on that note, I bid you adieu for the evening.

    Adieu... and sleep well, dear one! You will want to be "refreshed" should you choose to continue this, ummmm... "game" (although, that gonna be hard, given you only have one rook, a pawn, and your king left, now...)

    Peace... and look forward to seeing you back on the [chess] board, dear Twitch!

    YOUR servant (still) and a slave of Christ,


  • Twitch

    Shelby, the question of the point in continuing our little chess game is a good one. I offered my opinion about the thread, the rest really isn't important. Forgive me if I went too far; I do crave a mental joust from time to time and what better subject and "opponent", lol. So with that I will leave this here if you will and thank you for engaging. Peace to you. P.S. Upon composing this, I see you've replied to my last post. Well, I guess it's now a unilateral choice anymore,..lol

  • sabastious


    Einstein's Speed Limit Still Enforced

    Author:Jonathan Vizcarra

    Read more: http://technorati.com/technology/article/einsteins-speed-limit-still-enforced/#ixzz1d36cTubO

    Last month, CERN thought they have detected particles called neutrinos travelling at faster-than-light speeds. It was groundbreaking news in the science world as Einstein's Theory of Relativity states that nothing can travel faster than light.

    CERN beamed particles of neutrinos from Switzerland to Italy. They measured the speed at which the neutrinos took to cover the 730 km(453.60 mile) journey. The experiment was named OPERA, Oscillation Project with Emulsion-Tracking Apparatus.

    Physicists ran the experiment over 15,000 times and saw that the particles consistently arrived 60 nanoseconds earlier than expected. They theorized that the particles were 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light.

    No one knew how to explain it until Ronald van Elburg at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands makes a convincing argument that he has found the error.

    It seems because the experiment used GPS satellites to accurately synchronize time, the scientists forgot to factor in that these were in orbit and not part of the Earth.

    This gave the satellites a small difference in measuring the distance of the neutrinos. From orbit, the neutrinos AND both destination and source are also moving. Meaning, when sitting on the orbit and looking down on Earth, the destination in Italy and source of the particles in Switzerland are also moving and not stationary unlike when standing on Earth the two are stationary.

    The difference? 32 nanoseconds on each end or a total of 64 nanoseconds which would the 60 nanosecond anomaly.

    The explanation is already under peer review and once finalized, would set the record straight that Einstein's theory still holds true.

    Read more: http://technorati.com/technology/article/einsteins-speed-limit-still-enforced/#ixzz1d36ZWZZV

  • PSacramento

    Sounds plausable.

  • TheUbermensch
    "Math", as we know it... might NOT work out. On a previous thread I shared something to this effect when I saw the physical realm come into existence. I heard a voice say... NOT in words of OUR world, but in words that I can only describe as some kind of "math" equations... but NOT, as somehow I understood that they were MUCH more advanced that what is at our current disposal: "Let light come to be/come into existence." Just those "words" spoken... and... omigosh... a very tiny "explosion" occurred. A "light" burst forth (from some other place)... punching through the "void"... and bringing "matter" through with it as it travelled. What I witnessed was the "birth" of that Light... coming out of a "womb". It was pure energy. It was my Lord... being "born"... from the Woman: the spirit realm. He came out of "her"... and into THIS "world"... which was a dense, black void - nothing existed in it. Not even dust particles. No sound. No air. No elements. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Like a vacuum.Yet, those words... that "equation"... resulted in that Light coming forth. We don't know the "math", dear one. We aren't even close to eventing the theories, let alone the formulas. Because what we DO know is absolutely... primitive... even prehistoric... to what I heard.


    ahhahahahahaahahhahahahahahah. Did anyone actually read this? ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhh. WOW ahahhahahaha

    I've never laughed so hard. And you don't claim to be an extremist AGuest? I don't even know where to start with this statement.


  • Qcmbr

    Astonishing. Can't believe I didn't read that stunner.

Share this