The Polarizing of America: Rep. Michele Bachmann wins Iowa Straw Poll

by darthfader 172 Replies latest social current

  • Sam Whiskey
    Sam Whiskey

    Wrong again Pistoff. " Completely false; American labor is the most productive in the world. " Your data shows output for American manufacturing. I don't see any data that compares America as a whole vs. any other country.

    And what is your definition of "Manufacturing"? Machined components, plastics, etc.... Or just assembly?

  • Diest

    God I hate people spouting christian values....TJ and Washington knew it was a bunch of BULLL SHITT. Look at a Map of all the countries with AAA rated debt...odd how they all are moving away from this stupid concept into a new secular model. Tell Scandanavia of your impending doom for them leaving behind their Sky Daddy.

  • Glander

    Sam said - " A code of conduct and function linked to the Bible is how we come this it not"

    I think this is a good point that should not be brushed aside by athiests. I am an atheist to the bone, but the principle of a moral guidebook cannot be underestimated in it's importance to a good system of human organisation. The Constitution is imperfect but it has been better than any other government structure in history.

  • NewChapter

    I can't in any way support the "christian values" argument!


  • Diest

    Glander, it has been the secular writers who propelled us forward not the religious. Unless you want to follow pauls words on slavery. If you do then all of those escaped slaves should be in hell or not resurected. Lest we forget the gays, or straight people like me who have sex outside of marriage. We are also counter to those values.

    Or take the first four commandments which are contrary to the 1st amendment of the US. The list goes on and on. Moral frameworks are out there and supported without the bible.

  • Glander

    I understand what your saying, NC. But when you consider basics like, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" or "you who are without sin, cast the first stone" or the parable of the Good Samaritan, etc. it is hard to deny they are important basics of a free society.

    Sometimes, in my opinion, we only think of Christian values in the context of JWs or some other controlling organized religion. The Bible has no endorsements of an organized religion. The word 'Christian' is not required. Christians didn't invent these values, rather the other way around.

    PS. I don't believe in God, ghosts or any other supernatural concept. But I find in my own nature an agreement with values that have been written down in the Bible, and other writings, that are hard to argue with.

  • sammielee24

    LOL..the point wasn't made that the values contribute greatly to a free society - it was said

    " Our adherence to principals based on the constitution which is largely based on biblical principles is our foundation. If we allow that to erode, then we're just like everybody else. "

    so....who is that everybody else that is so evil and is not free? There are a lot of free countries with great values and principles, people living happily with security and who are all those 'others' ? sammies

    *It was my understanding that the constitution was never based on biblical principles - and in fact, it was always my understanding that it was held separate from any religion

  • NewChapter

    Sammies, the constitution is NOT a christian document. One could argue that it is "culturally" christian, but there is absolutely nothing in there about doing unto others and not casting stones or the good samaritan. So those are not actually relevent arguments. (Edit to say: Sammies, I know this wasn't your argument---I just was agreeing with some things you said and then diverged!)

    It draws strongly from the Magna Carta, which in turn drew strongly on principals established in ancient Greece---PAGAN ancient Greece. The notion that all men were created equal was first advanced by PAGAN Greek philosopher Epicurus in the 4th century BCE. Thomas Jefferson considered himself a student of Epicurean philosophy and it made it into the Declaration of Independence.

    He taught that happiness should be maximized and harm minimized. This led John Locke to argue that all people had a right to pursue life, liberty and property and this was reworked to say Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Since "property" was also considered to be one's own being, happiness was a natural evolution.

    It's been a while since I learned this, but I still have my notes. I should pull them out and read them again, but this is what I remember and what I quickly googled to refresh some of it. One thing that really tires me are these claims that the founding fathers were Christians above all else. They were not. It is evidenced in their documents and their concern that the religious would try to impede government. Take a look at DC. PAGANISM EVERYWHERE.

    The bible does NOT promote equality. That was a pagan idea carried over by our founding fathers. Check out the Magna Carta. It's a work of art.


  • designs

    Just remember Cyrus the Great wrote the 1st Declaration Of Human Rights in 539 BC. He declared the end to slavery and that peoples under his rulership could maintain their cultures and their religions free of harassment.

    Christianity smashed all of those values and reintroduced slavery on a global scale, forced indigenous peoples under threat of death to give up their culture and their religion.

    And Michelle Bachmann and Rick Perry esteem and promote 'Christian Values'.

  • Berengaria

    What is vertility??

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