Sam American productivity has gone through the roof in the last 30 years, the problem is that the compensation has gone to the "bosses", and the workers are being squeezed.
The Polarizing of America: Rep. Michele Bachmann wins Iowa Straw Poll
by darthfader 172 Replies latest social current
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darthfader
Hey... I just wanted to thank you all for the good discussion! Lots to learn here... I knew that the Declaration of Independence was "inspired" by the Magna Carta, but I didnt think about the the MC being influenced by Greek/Pagan culture. Interesting! Thanks NC
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JonathanH
Which christian values made America great? Slaughter the indigenous people to get the best land for yourself? Enslave foreigners for cheap labor? Have children in factories work 12 hours a day seven days a week so their families don't starve? Segregating the population based on race? Or the ones of promoting cultural tolerance, fair labor laws, and equality? I have a hard time figuring out which ones are the christian values (they all were in their day) and which ones made the country great (they all served their purpose at the time, and got america to where it is now).
Saying christian values made this country great is at it's best an ambiguous platitude, and at worst an extremely selective remembering of history.
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designs
Just remember Bachmann and Perry want to decimate the EPA. In Southern California we have 48 'Hot Spots' in our coastal waters where the toxins render the fish dangerous to eat, expecially for children who are affected by mercury and pcb's.
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Berengaria
Geee Designs!! How do you expect business to trickle down allllllllll those jobs if they have to comply with environmental standards??? Get a clue silly!!
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BizzyBee
The Bible is a mix of values that we honor today, but also behavior that we condemn today. I'd sooner look elsewhere for consistent ethical guidelines. I agree with NC - the Constitution is not a Biblically-based document. Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence and a great influence on the development of the Constitution, was a deist, who coined the term "separation of church and state." He thought Jesus was a great moral teacher, but not divine. Naturally, the rabid religious right wants to kick him out of the history books.
Actually, the Democratic Party, though home to more atheists and agnostics (rightly or wrongly), advocates for more Christian compassion towards their fellow man than the Christian evangelical right wing of the GOP. As they say, politics makes strange bedfellows.
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designs
Sushi anyone, I hear the California Roll glows in the dark...
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NewChapter
Conservatives are working toward decentralizing government, legislating christian values, and privatizing as much government as possible. Well we've already lived through an era like this--it's called THE DARK AGES. Conservatives long for the days of Manorialism and Feudlsm.
When Rome fell, strong central government fell with it. This left Europe to fend for itself. The only stable institution was the church. So nobles picked up where government left off.
Feudalism: Involved nobles only, as they were the only ones that counted. Nobles maintained their own military and strenghthened it by a series of convoluted agreements with other nobles. They would pledge protection to each other. These agreements were quite extensive and many nobles would sign onto many contracts. If interests collided, and a noble was obligated to offer support to feuding nobles at the same time, well he was in a pickle. He was obligated to both, and not upholding his agreement to either made him an outcast, because these agreements were confirmed in the glorious christian church. He bacame a black knight.
The nobles were also tasked with fixing the roads, as there was no central government to provide the service. PRIVITIZATION at it's finest.
Manorialism: The noble had a manor and farmland. The peasants worked the land as indentured servants--who in practice were no more than slaves. They were completely dependent on their noble for ovens, brewery, blacksmiths, every service they couldn't fullfill in their tiny little cottages. Every service had a charge, and the noble kept track of every little coin. Peasants could never work off their debt to the noble, and were chained for generations.
And everyone had to stay good with the church. Yes--this is the conservative view of how the world should be. Bachmann is the nobility and the rest of us can work our lives away with no hope of advancement, enslaving our children. Wages are low. No unions. No voice. praisejesus.
I don't want to live in a world like this. The christian vision with all those values makes my blood run cold. It never used to worry me, except these loons are gaining traction. Yes there are social liberals/fiscal conservatives in the mix, but Ron Paul will never be president. Libertarians are so much about personal freedom, yet they support a party that seeks to destroy their freedom. But they go that way because they are fiscal conservatives. Yayyy libertarians---you won't have to pay taxes or protect the environment---but you get to go to a christian church approved by the Perrys of this country and if you don't you will be miserable.
Welcome sunday laws. Welcome bigotry. But then, Rand Paul thinks the civil rights amendment went too far. He is outraged that *gasp* private businesses are not allowed to discriminate. What the f**k has american come to when you can't turn little black children away from the candy store? Oh god, what have we done????? We've stepped on the toes of most holy private business.
Slavery proponents were able to use the bible to support their views. Slavery opponents were also able to use the bible to support their views. The bible is wishy washy and weak that way. All wisdom found there can be found elsewhere. Jesus believed in slavery. The hebrew god believed in slavery. Is it shocking that slave women were raped by their white masters? It shouldn't be. It's all there in the OT. Raping a slave was no big deal. praisethelord.
The right can stand on a soapbox and tout their dirthy, filthy christian values, but I'm not buying it. Europeans were outraged that the Aztec ripped beating hearts out of the chests of their sacrifices. OUTRAGED. They much preferred to disembowel living humans. They preferred to burn generations of women and a few men alive on a stake. Yessssss---but not the heart. No, that would be heathen.
My greatest nightmare is that this country will be overtaken by christian values. As I've said before, I'm so grateful that god doesn't get to vote!
I'm going with the ancient Greek philosphers.
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designs
NC- Remember what happened when the California Legislature had the brilliant idea to 'de-regulate' the utility energy companies.
Anyone remember Enron, I hope you didn't have stock in it.
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designs
NC- Remember what happened when the California Legislature had the brilliant idea to 'de-regulate' the utility energy companies.
Anyone remember Enron, I hope you didn't have stock in it.