New International Version (©1984) "Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them." New Living Translation (©2007) "Even some men from your own group will rise up and distort the truth in order to draw a following." English Standard Version (©2001) "and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them." Just pointing out that even the Nicene Creed itself may have been a distorting of the 'truth'. Jesus' teachings were essentially clear and simple, even the 'uneducated' people understood him and marvelled at his words. I wonder if a trinitarian could approach an average person on the street and explain even the most basic version of the trinity doctrine? And can anyone point out anywhere in the Bible that the Holy Spirit receives worship as a God? Thanks.
The Trinity
by The Quiet One 163 Replies latest watchtower bible
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bob1999
The Quiet One,
I think your link is the standard argument against, mine the standard argument for.
It's interesting that you would say "....proven directly from scripture...."
I looked up how Agnostic is defined...
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god , and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. If knowledge is limited to [personal] experience then nothing can be proven directly from scripture. Something that is, I believe related, when looking at the bible and trying to understand it I don't bring a lot of " made sense to me" or "judge reasoning based on...... its own merit." along. I, instead, look more for "does it make bible sense".
As a believer I want to know what the bible says, not what makes sense to my very limited human mind.
I believe in the full sovereignty of God. This is his sandbox. His rules, not mine.
Peace
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leavingwt
This thread should be at least 20 pages by now. I would like to invite more people to participate. We're falling behind. This is the TRINITY!
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bob1999
Come on man, we're up to 6 and doing the best we can. :-)
Peace
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bob1999
designs,
You're right, I can't find anything in the WTS lit. that is a formal denouncement of Russell.
One part of the Bible Students changed their name to the WTBTS about 1930.
I wouldn't say that that is when they started, that's just when they changed their name.
I still say if you show up at the KH preaching that Christ returned in 1874 you will be DFed.
Peace
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Think About It
As a believer I want to know what the Bible says, not what makes sense to my very limited human mind.
Would it make sense for a humand to write you things about themselve that you would not understand? In the same sense, I think it would make sense for a God using the Bible to reveal himself to mankind to have it written in a way that makes sense to people. The concept of the Trinity makes no sense and cannot be ascertained by an unbiased reading of the Bible. A non-Trinity God like the Jews had, who had a Son named Jesus makes more sense. That is something that people can understand.
Think About It
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The Quiet One
Bob- I must not have been clear, for which I apologise. I am Agnostic in the sense that I don't believe that I can know God, but I'm open minded enough to still discuss the meaning of the Bible, and open minded enough to test out what people say without dismissing it. As much as I don't think I'll ever fully know anything about God, I also realise that I could be wrong about even that, and I'd like to find out if the Bible can teach me anything at all. Or if there is a consistent set of evidence-based beliefs that will at least make something in life make sense. In other words, I think I might be an agnostic, but I don't really know :)
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leavingwt
As a believer I want to know what the bible says, not what makes sense to my very limited human mind.
But, on some level, you probably acknowledge that you've used your "very limited human mind" to DECIDE for yourself that the Bible is the best holy book, among the many available ones. Do you see how outsiders can see an inconsistency here?
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Think About It
This thread should be 20 pages by now.
LOL.....this is the slowest Trinity thread by far. First one I've got involved with in awhile. I'm going to the airport to catch a flight, so I'm be out of the discussion.
Think About It
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leavingwt
Some should mention Guns, Abortion or Sarah Palin, just to quicken the pace.