I have a question, primarily for trinitarians, but anyone's more than welcome to comment. What scriptural basis is there for believing in the Trinity? I can understand some having the view that Jesus/Jehovah both can be worshipped, and the view that Jesus should be, but where in the Bible is the Holy Spirit worshipped? The Holy Spirit isn't mentioned in heavenly visions of the Lamb and the One sat on the throne in Revelation, and I just noticed that in Acts, Stephens vision only contained Jesus and Jehovah, not the Holy Spirit. I can't see why anyone believes the Trinity doctrine, but I'd be happy to listen to others views. Thanks in advance :)
The Trinity is very popular and has lots of support from academia. However, I have not being able to find in the Bible. Most of the scriptures used in support of the Trinity deal with only two individuals, not three. And those purported to support the Trinity really don't prove anything remotely that under close observation.
The JWs have scripturally many things wrong, but I think they are right on rejecting the Trinity.
There have been dozens of threads on this topic. Still, this thread deserves to be at least 20 pages long.
You can do it, JWN!
John 14:16-17 (Revised Standard Version)
16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.
12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyre'ne, Man'a-en a member of the court of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
1 But a man named Anani'as with his wife Sapphi'ra sold a piece of property, 2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, "Anani'as, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land?
These are just a few verses showing the personification of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is called God in Act 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
leavingwt:this thread deserves to be at least 20 pages long.
I'm bettin' on 30.....
Thanks for the replies. I think that this page is relevant to the discussion.. http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/3562/Personification.htm
Bob+isidore- http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/3562/Personification.htm "But why did Peter make it seem as if the Spirit had personality? Because as the means, the power, the vehicle, the agency, by which the Father and the Son accomplish their will (for example, creating— Genesis 1:2 ),the Spirit takes on properties that they have. We do this in our own speech and writing: Money talks. Power corrupts. Words bite. To describe actions of things, we often use verbs that more accurately describe humanactions. Wind moans or shrieks. Fire licks wood. Rain dances. Water runs. These words do not make the things human. In Romans 5-7, Paul personifies death, law, and sin . "Death reigned from Adam to Moses " ( Romans 5:14 ). "The law has dominion" (7:1). "Sin . . . deceived me, and by it killed me"(7:11). We know that none of these things has personality, andwe think nothing more of it. The same applies to the Spirit of God.Just because we use verbs that normally describe the actions of a person does not mean that thesubject is a person. It is a non-argument; it means nothing. More important is how the entirety of the Bible treats the concept of God's Spirit . Using one verse like Acts 5:3 to "prove"a doctrine is called "proof texting." This method violates two of the paramount points of biblical understanding: 1) Always use clear verses to explain unclear verses , and 2) gather all of the pertinent verses from the whole Bible and study them completely before reaching a conclusion on a doctrine ."
"More important is how the entirety of the Bible treats the concept of God's Spirit ."
Good point. I think the entirety of the Bible treats the Holy Spirit as God.
This video is long but if you can view the whole thing I think it makes a good case for the Holy Spirit being God.
Don't get hung up on the first part or two. The meat is in the later parts.