by summerinvincible 115 Replies latest jw friends
Ignore them all unless one of them actually has something to do with a question you asked.
Check to see if any of them contradict something she has already said.
If none of them demonstrate that they predicted Christ's return in 1914, or any of the other statements or questions, just reply saying which questions they didn't address and ask her to send something more relevent.
Growing in accurate knowledge of the truth, IT Page 133. I think she sent you that, says:
In 1876, when Russell had first read a copy of Herald of the Morning, he had learned that there was another group who then believed that Christ’s return would be invisible and who associated that return with blessings for all families of the earth. From Mr. Barbour, editor of that publication, Russell also came to be persuaded that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874. Attention was later drawn to this by the subtitle “Herald of Christ’s Presence,” which appeared on the cover of Zion’s Watch Tower.
Say something along the lines of: You said your church, and others, predicted Christ's return in 1914, but this article says they thought it was in 1874 and that they published that in Zion's Watch Tower. When did the Watch Tower start predicting Christ's return in 1914?
The article says that the Adventists thought that Christ's return would be in the flesh, then, after he hadn't shown up and the Adventists were looking like a bunch of fools, Russell says that it was invisible, but that they had the date right, just like Camping did by claiming Judgement Day was invisible when nothing happened. I'm sure the Bible must have scriptures warning about following false prophets. What are they? Do you think the the Adventists were false prophets? Do you think Camping is a false prophet?
I like Black Sheep's reasoning using that publication ^^^
If that doesn't start opening her eyes, I don't know what will.
summerinvicible . . . go with Black Sheeps post above . . . get familiar with it and don't deviate until you get an answer that satisfies YOU . . . if it doesn't . . . say so and say why . . . and ask like you have a genuine interest . . . not an objection. You're using the information THEY have provided . . . that's important. Gently and respectfully nail them to the wall on this . . . is my 2c worth.
This is so fascinating.
Black Sheep, you rock!
Syl
Marking - Stay with Black Sheep's recommendations. I will follow this thread with interest.
Regards,
Jim TX
I notice that your question on 1914 didn't include 'Christ's return'. This was a mistake. They did make predictions for 1914, but not that one. We don't want her slipping the noose.
Black Sheep - I went back through my emails to her, and I did ask "So, did the Watchtower predict Christ's return in 1914?", to which she replied "Yes they did, along with others". And that's when I replied, " I didn't know other churches also predicted 1914. Which ones? ...".....
sizemik - I'm definitely being careful about wording my emails, so she thinks I am genuinely interested. I've shown no contempt, nor have I actually disagreed with anything she's said so far... I'm just asking questions.
I want to read the document properly, then I'll send the response that Black Sheep suggested.
Sorry, didn't mean to bold all that, and I meant to put the first paragraph in quotes. D'oh!
summerinvincible - I went back and read through your posts too, and it is very good that you went back and checked them. Black Sheep is pointing out a dynamic that occurs in JW conversations. If you don't stick exactly to what you originally said, they will exploit any ambiguity in your current wording as an opportunity to let the conversation shift to a slightly different issue. Don't let her think she has answered your question by simply saying the WT predicted something. Predicted what? Black Sheep's last post is excellent. If she sent you material that said the WT thought Christ returned in 1874, when did they start predicting Christ would return in 1914? She originally claimed the WT and other churches predicted Christ would return in 1914. You asked which other churches. See if she can provide you with an answer.
Summerinvincible's friend may find some satisfaction in knowing that they didn't predict Christ's return for 1914. That would mean they're not false prophets! In the case of both dates, 1874 and 1914, they decided retrospectively that Christ had returned in those years. Through "careful Bible research".
They did, however, make a raft of other predictions that were clearly wrong. A list of them is found under "Failed predictions" at the Wikipedia article here.
There are 16 separate dates there on which they made very bold claims about Christ's return, the end of human rule and of course Armageddon. All specified dates or indicated a very short timespan (months, a "short time"). None were fulfilled. There is very little to differentiate between the Watchtower claims and those of Camping.
