A few Dawkins quotes to think about.

by AK - Jeff 328 Replies latest jw friends

  • cofty
    cofty

    You seem to have a problem with the way the world is, why? - PSacramento

    Nothing could be further from the truth, I am immersed daily in admiration of the natural world. Why do christians try to sugar-coat it with phrases like "give and take in a truly awesome circle of life"? Its pure carnage. It is totally inconsistant with the idea that it ws created by a god of love. Consider a couple of examples...

    The female sand tiger shark produces 400 to 500 embryos at a time. While still in the womb, these embryo sharks grow razor-sharp teeth, the embryonic sharks start to eat other embryos. Within a few months, three to four dominant sharks engage in a life-or-death struggle until only one survives. By the time it is born, the sole-surviving shark pup has become an experienced predator. Amazing film taken inside the womb recently appeared on UK television clearly demonstrating this behaviour.

    An amazing percentage of life on earth is parasitic. Some parasites do not just feed from their hosts the actually invade their brain and effect their behaviour to the parasites advantage. Dr. Manfred E. Rau of McGill University in Montreal, recently found that two types of closely related parasitic worms can dramatically influence the behaviour of mice to suit their own needs. One worm will prompt the mouse to become hyperactive, scampering through fields so frenetically that it attracts the attention of a predatory bird that will eat the mouse and the worm with it. When the bird eats the mouse, it provides the necessary next home for the parasitic larvae. By contrast, the related worm species will cause a mouse to become sluggish, heightening the chance it will be easily stalked down by the carnivorous mammals this worm prefers for its second shelter.

    The ichneumon wasp has developed a particularly gruesome method of providing food for it’s young. Among ectoparasites, many females lay their eggs directly upon the host's body. Since an active host would easily dislodge the egg, the ichneumon mother often simultaneously injects a toxin that paralyses the caterpillar or other victim. The paralyses may be permanent, and the caterpillar lies, alive but immobile, with the agent of its future destruction secure on its belly. The egg hatches, the helpless caterpillar twitches, the wasp larvae pierces and begins its grisly feast. Since a dead and decaying caterpillar will do the wasp larvae no good, the ichneumon larvae eat fat bodies and digestive organs first, keeping the caterpillar alive by preserving intact the essential heart and central nervous system. Finally, the larvae completes its work and kills its victim, leaving behind the caterpillar's empty shell.

    "All creatures bright and beautiful....."

  • cofty
    cofty

    You are constantly attaching the idea of God to the stories you were told. I would recommend stopping that - Sab

    Sorry I don't understand what you mean? It sounds a bit smug and condescending but pehaps I have misunderstood?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    An amazing percentage of life on earth is parasitic.

    Funny, my wife and I were walking through some high grass a few days ago and we stopped to check for ticks. I made a joke about letting them stay on me because it's the only way they could eat. She was effectively grossed out and rightly so lol.

    -Sab

  • unshackled
    unshackled

    I find it smug that we sit at our computers, fridge full of food, running water, 200 channels on the tube....and figure the world is all cute and cuddly.

    Tell that to the other two-thirds of the population on this planet that are starving, thirsty and live in horrid conditions. If we look at humanity as a whole, and NOT just our little personal lives, there is desperate work to be done save ourselves from extinction.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Sorry I don't understand what you mean? It sounds a bit smug and condescending but pehaps I have misunderstood?

    What I said did sound that way, but I don't mean it that way. Just the same I could accuse you of trying to manipulate me and turn me from God with your anti-creationist propaganda. But I don't think that, but it's what it could look like with a certain lense.

    I just see you being intellectually lazy. The "flood argument" is about as imaginative as the "hilter argument." Don't get me wrong I sympathize with the atheist position I really do.

    -Sab

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    "All creatures bright and beautiful....."

    Indeed, spectacular examples of the variety of nature.

    Add to that hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis, eartquakes and so forth and we have a display of nature that is truly outstanding.

    There is nothing moral or amoral about any of that.

    I find it smug that we sit at our computers, fridge full of food, running water, 200 channels on the tube....and figure the world is all cute and cuddly.

    Tell that to the other two-thirds of the population on this planet that are starving, thirsty and live in horrid conditions. If we look at humanity as a whole, and NOT just our little personal lives, there is desperate work to be done save ourselves from extinction.

    ARe you saying that the way the world IS is not how it OUGHT to be?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Tell that to the other two-thirds of the population on this planet that are starving, thirsty and live in horrid conditions. If we look at humanity as a whole, and NOT just our little personal lives, there is desperate work to be done save ourselves from extinction.

    We found a lover not a hater!

    -Sab

  • cofty
    cofty

    I just see you being intellectually lazy. The "flood argument" is about as imaginative as the "hilter argument." Don't get me wrong I sympathize with the atheist position I really do

    In what way am I being intellectually lazy exactly? Please go back and read the context - there was no "flood argument". I was illustrating that taking the supernatural out of life does remove the sense of awe and wonder. Facing up to the brutal reality of the universe is the first step in truly learning to appreciate it for what it is, not the sanitized version of reality that chritians take comfort in.

    There is nothing moral or amoral about any of that.

    Please note the important distiction between amoral and immoral. The natural world is most definitely "amoral".

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    Jeff,
    Do you really beleive that ALL the universe is/has to offer is Pain, chaos and terror?

    I never said that, did I? I was summarizing my opinions about what Dawkins meant in one of his quotations. I happen to agree with him, but not with your assessment that I view the universe ONLY as offering pain, chaos, and terror.

    As Cofty so well stated above, the universe is beautiful on some/many levels. But creationists miss the point that at some very basic levels it is ugly. And if we suppose that by examining the bones of any house we can find much about the attitudes/character/wisdom of the builder, then it would follow that God is not as presented by creationists. He is not LOVE. He could not be, if he is the author of the chaos and pain we see at the foundations of our world and universe. I present that pure evolution better explains such foundation than does creation.

    Personally, I think that God was created to cover our fears. We do not wish to believe that survival is the key element of life - we prefer to believe that underlying all this must be LOVE. Yet the evidence does not support such conjecture. God was created to foward such opinion among the superstitious ancients who could not explain it otherwise. Just my opinion.

    I love life. I simply see no evidence to support that it was created by any super-sky-daddy of love. I further present that if it were, it would be evident as we inspected it deeply on all levels. What we find is not compatible with such thinking however. We find genes with survival mode tactics at all levels of life - not genes with love tactics.

    Jeff

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Please note the important distiction between amoral and immoral. The natural world is most definitely "amoral".

    Sorry, I meant to say moral, immoral or amoral since they are simply human definitions that are subjective and have nothing to do with nature.

    The world is the way it is because it can't be any other way.

    I am not sure where you got the idea that christian view this world in a "sanitized" way though...I am confused about that.

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