A few Dawkins quotes to think about.

by AK - Jeff 328 Replies latest jw friends

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."

    "My last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of September 11th 2001, followed by the "National Day of Prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous Martin Luther King impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place."

    "The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference"

  • unshackled
    unshackled

    Can't remember if that last quote is from The God Delusion or Greatest Show on Earth. But when I read it I thought of how many believe in or accept the principle of karma. After leaving the Dubs I still held on to some belief in a karma system...that somehow the universe was looking out for you. Had a plan for you.

    When you observe our natural world it just isn't so. Believe in karma? Tell that to the mother in Haiti who lost her children in the earthquake. Tell that to the man in Japan that lost his family to the tsunami. Tell that to the 8-year-old that dies from brain cancer. What did they do to deserve that karma?

    It just isn't so. The universe is neither for nor against us. It is indifferent...whether you like it or not.

  • Robert7
    Robert7

    This is my favorite Dawkins quote:

    Do you really mean to tell me the only reason you try to be good is to gain God's approval and reward, or to avoid his disapproval and punishment? That's not morality, that's just sucking up, applepolishing, looking over your shoulder at the great surveillance camera in the sky, or the still small wiretap inside your head, monitoring your every move, even your every base thought

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Dawkins has turned "faith" into a buzzterm. Not good.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference"

    I'm not sure why he believes the animals are suffering? "Suffering" is merely a state of mind defined by humans.

    -Sab

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Robert7 - I expect that many believers would dismiss Dawkins' opinion here [probably using the word blasphemy], though honestly, how can they? Religious culture is saturated with the good/evil, right/wrong, black/white stereotyping. And the end of day for them is that god will find more on their scales that is good/right/white than he will find evil/wrong/black - and reward will follow.

    I one time [when I was a Jw pioneer] was trying to preach to a bike rider passing thru our area at a grocery store. He made similar point to that of Dawkins, only in much plainer language. As he rode off dismissing my message he called out: "I am not interested in kissing any Divine Ass. Period." That always stuck with me, and is much how I feel these days myself. Of course, he did not believe in any Divine Ass to be kissing. Nor do I.

    Jeff

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Do you really mean to tell me the only reason you try to be good is to gain God's approval and reward, or to avoid his disapproval and punishment? That's not morality, that's just sucking up, applepolishing, looking over your shoulder at the great surveillance camera in the sky, or the still small wiretap inside your head, monitoring your every move, even your every base thought

    If someone is only doing "good" to get God's approval (ignorning all the good that comes from doing good) then they are an imbecile and there is no sense in wasting energy identifying and refuting their fairytales.

    -Sab

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Sab - how do you mean? You think that 'suffering' is only possible if we can reason at the human level? No - animals suffer. Watch one in the throws of death, mortally wounded. That is suffering - defined by humans, but suffered by the animal undergoing the pain and anguish is it not?

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    If someone is only doing "good" to get God's approval (ignorning all the good that comes from doing good) then they are an imbecile and there is no sense in wasting energy identifying and refuting their fairytales.
    -Sab

    Precisely what Dawkins is saying, no?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Precisely what Dawkins is saying, no?

    Dawkins is in the industry of identifying and refuting their fantasies. He tries to expose them. I think it's wasted energy and borderline hate-mongering.

    -Sab

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