How do you feel about the pledge of allegiance now? (page 6)

journey-on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZ_dEzDPKM

" That is the most powerful point yet. The pledge itself isn't her own conviction. If anything, it's a conviction being shoved down her throat. And that's what I'm fighting. This isn't a battle to get her to echo my words... it is a battle for her to NOT have to echo someone else's. It's the principle."

Question: Would a Brain surgeon ask a nurses aid, how he should proceed in surgery?

Sweets, it seems to me that you are doin' a damn good job with your children , it's also good

that you like to hear opinions of others, but when it come to you and yours, you can truly say

" I GOT THIS "

SweetBabyCheezits

Zoiks, CJ, JNFB & Justitia, thanks for the refreshing posts and additional perspectives.

Willy, I'm all for birthdays because, as far as I can see, celebrating them doesn't impinge on critical thinking.

Was, you know I've got a special place in my heart for you! Thank you for the kind words.

SweetBabyCheezits

Zoiks: Oh, a little off topic- "my country, right or wrong" has been taken out of context and misquoted for a long time now. A pity.

I hope I wasn't speaking in ignorance there. I had read the wiki entry for that quote and noticed that it was considered a straw man argument but, unfortunately, I've also heard it used by prejudice rednecks here in the south who meant it just as it sounds. I also read a segment from a Mark Twain essay (after the fact) in which he shot the expression down but that doesn't mean anything either.

But even after reading the origin, I don't have faith that our nation or government will right itself if discovered to be in the wrong. I'm really not clear on it, to be honest, so I probably should've used another expression to reflect the blind nationalism that I've witnessed in some local residents. That is what I do not wish to see in my kids.

zoiks

I'm really not clear on it, to be honest, so I probably should've used another expression to reflect the blind nationalism that I've witnessed in some local residents.

Oh, absolutely- I think it quite clearly reflects the blind nationalism, or jingoism, that many folks put on display. I feel that it's a pity that its original meaning is lost on so many because of said use.

tec

And you are really ok with your children going through brainless motions?

I just don't think it means as much as some are worried about - and I also very much believe in picking your battles. There is such a thing as going overboard. Of course, we don't have something like that pledge here in Canada. My kids don't even sing the anthem at the start of school, as I believe I did when I was in school.

In scouts (which my oldest no longer wants to be part of), though, they have to recite oaths and stuff. I don't like that, but I leave it to them as to what they think of it. Right now they don't care about that. Lets get this part over with - the mindless memorization - then we can go and do the fun stuff.

They are, however, in a Catholic school, and so I know that they hear the Our Father prayer every morning. I can't complain, seeing as it is a catholic school, but they still aren't forced to say it. It isn't mandatory, nor is it mandatory that they be or believe in catholic things. They just have to know what catholics believe from what they learn in religion class.

Honestly, I would have put them in a public school over a catholic one (just because of the doctrinal teachings), knowing then what I know now. But it is what it is, and I don't want to tear them away from their friends - and they don't want to be torn away from their friends. It is at least an opportunity for them to practice critical thinking skills, as my kids are surrounded by people who believe different things, so they do have to think about those things for themselves.

Tammy