How do you feel about the pledge of allegiance now? (page 5)

cyberjesus

Indoctrinating a child or any other person who can not use his full mental/critical/rational thinking abilities is abuse. Is taking advantage of their inexperience and guillibility, being that religion, political affiliation, patriotic alliegance.. When and individual does not have the ability to choose his options in a rational way is abuse.

A child can not choose his citizenship nor nationality... as a child, he doesnt have the mental capability to pledge alliegance to any country if doesnt know what his country stands for.... So regardles of what the Pledge says that is abuse.

As an adult you can decide what or where or how. I definetely have a problem using the term "one nation under God" the same way some of you might a problem with the following "one nations under the gods of heaven" or "one nation under the control of the Flying Spaghetti Monster".

If you dont believe on my FSM God why should I believe on yours?

Does it matter what our kids repeat? I guess it all depends who you ask... if you ask a JW he will tell you his kids wont repeat the PoA but he will be ok with his kids repeating a prayer.. if you ask a catholic he will be ok with Hail Marys or Our Fathers.... if you ask a muslim he will be ok repeating Islam chants, if you had ask a Nazi parent they most likely were ok with Heil Hittler......

To me it is very important what they repeat. I want to know what they repeat..... No kid should repeat any chant of indoctrination... Only adult should... and that after careful analisys... Do I want to teach my children to analize it? heck yeah!

SweetBabyCheezits

Zarco: You sound like a great dad. We did our best to raise our daughter to question, to be brave, to stand up for and choose her own beliefs and other than a few times when I was afraid for her, she turned out to be a wonderful young woman. If I can make a suggestion, I would share this "thread" with her and the responses and listen to her thinking on it. Would love to hear what she has to say.

Thank you, Zarco. I'm not always so sure about my job as a dad. Sometimes I feel like I need a college education to know how to handle things. Being a parents presents some challenges, doesn't it??

I would absolutely LOVE to hear what your daughter has to say. In fact, that's really what I've been looking for - a young adult who has been raised in an environment like that. I have a number of questions I'd like to ask, too. Thank you very much for the suggestion.

JNFB: SBC is an aweswome dad - he gives his kids pet dinosaurs! It doesn't get better than that!

LOL, thanks! Did I tell you about my son's obsession with dinos?? He's only three but I've never seen anything like it. Seriously, I feel like I should start looking into universities with paleontology programs ASAP.

For the rest of you, please understand I'm not trying to tell any other parents how they need to view the pledge at all. I'm simply expressing my perspective and why and curious if I was alone in this view. I don't think kids who do recite it will be brainwashed or fare any worse than those refuse.

I do have a problem with the state and/or school expecting kids to pledge by default. It may not be mandatory, but like JNFB said, the alternative isn't clear.

cyberjesus

The salute means nothing to the children its another brainless motion they go through

And you are really ok with your children going through brainless motions?

just n from bethel

As I've left the JWs I often hear from hardcore Xtians that I've thrown the "baby out with the bathwater". That's just not true. I appreciate certain things that I learned while a JW. It was, after all, the JW's teaching to 'make sure of all things' that got me on the path of thinking correctly about the religion, the bible, and truth.

It turned out that the JWs only want you to make sure of all things that DON'T conflict with WT dogma. But - that doesn't mean every idea that JWs taught me was wrong. I appreciate that I don't look at any nation, including my own birth nation, as superior. I know that idea is not exclusive to JWs but I can promise you this, had I been raised in any of the churches surrounding my childhood home, I would have been taught that America was a superior nation. Add that onto chanting the pledge - day in and day out - well you get the cult of nationalism.

I think sometimes, when people leave the JWs they almost want to do everything they were told not to do as a JW, just to spite them. It's understandable, oppressive cults have a way of making people feel that way. But, the way I see it, is that I look at each issue on its own merits. Holidays, patriotism, military service, etc. I don't have a black and white classification system like the JWs. Each issue that deserves my individual consideration, gets it based on universal moral principles that are far above any religous school of thought.

Anyway - that's my Dear Abbey for the day ;)

sabastious

Seriously, I feel like I should start looking into universities with paleontology programs ASAP.

Has he seen Jurassic Park? There are downsides to that industry too.

-Sab

cyberjesus

Where the eff do you get off saying I'm "jerking my kid around"?

Did you really mean eff?

SweetBabyCheezits

:-D Not really. I censored myself.

Justitia Themis

I agree with you completely SBC. I'm trying to work that out myself. Also, my children have dual citizenship - so which flag should they salute????

I subscribe to Foreign Affairs magazine, and several times it has run an interesting, full-page ad campaign for a masters program. In bold letters at the top of the page it says, "As A World Citizen, To Whom Do I Pledge My Allegiance?" It is further testimony to the rise of the 'global imaginary' that I think will change the course of Westphalian nationalism as we know it.

The "Under God" thing is just an example of how ridiculous people can get when they feel threatened...like by the Red Scare (communism).

just n from bethel

But then again - another part of me says I would never - ever, renounce my American citizenship. As for the whole 'move to canada' thing, well... if Canada was so great it would be a state. ;)

willyloman

I no longer object to identifying myself as an American citizen, so these days the pledge is just fine with me.

As for my kids, if I had it to do over again I'd want them to pledge, I'd want them to stand for the national anthem, I'd want them to sing Happy Birthday and have some freakin' cake. I would want them to feel that they're they part of society at large. Later, when they grow up and start thinking for themselves, they can rebel if they want.

How do you feel about the pledge of allegiance now?

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