So me, of all people, had a religious experience (page 27)

Nickolas

In the spirit of evidence collecting, i think materialists should ask a lot more questions before making judgements.

Wise and equitable observation. If someone, including a scientist, makes an assertion on the basis that he just knows it to be true, and offers no evidence for his assertion, I would certainly typify that someone as a fundamentalist. But I don't see that as being the case, here. Sab described an experience he could not explain and explanations were offered that do not support it being a religious experience. That those explanations are rejected out of hand by people who just know that the experience was religious, but those same people offer no other explanation for it having happened other than the mystical is, to me, a far stronger indication of fundamentalist belief.

Time for dinner. Interesting dialogue.

Satanus

Later, nic.

S

cofty

In the entire history of the world there has not been a single "supernatural" event for which there is any credible evidence. With all of that experience why are we not justified in rejecting anything apart from a natural explanation? Why do those who prefer to hope there may yet be a spiritual dimension to the universe get irritated when others ask for evidence?

"Now, the invention of the scientific method is, I'm sure we'll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked. If it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn't withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn't seem to work like that. It has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, "Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? ? because you're not!" - Douglas Adams

OnTheWayOut

sab: "That said, flipping a coin with the intention of getting 10 tails in a row is different. How many times, on average, will it take for the 10 in a row to happen? Now that is calculable and the Indians did the math a long time ago."

Okay, so do this card thing with the intention of producing a "King-Low" ten times. Something you did not do when this unusual but well-within-probability event occurred.

Satanus

'Religion doesn't seem to work like that. It has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, "Here is an idea or a notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? ? because you're not!" - Douglas Adams'

And yet, some materialists take that same to someone relating an unexplainable experience.

S

Violia

I understood you Nick. For the record I don't think anyone is being bitchy. I just dislike that those who do not believe in God always feel they must have the last word. They have to be right. It being unexplained does not mean it has to be a higher power answering Sab's question/statement. I used to think like the average jws, it was the demons. That was the answer to anything that could not be explained. I now know that is not true and I am not married to an opinion and am willing to learn and alter my views.

I really enjoyed reading that pdf about the ghost in the machine. I know they do use sound to treat illness, I used to have a software program that claimed that certain levels of sounds would benefit certain illness. I have no idea if that if it works but am open to alternative medicine -as long as we don't throw out the proven medicine.

I recall when garage door openers first came out. A lot of folks had unexplained things happen , like the neighbor's garage door opener turning off other things in their house. Looked scary, was not.

I would also suggest the HBO special I posted the link to . It is an amazing dialog between two people about the belief in God and our fellow man. I was impressed by both Samuel Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones. Excellent acting and worthy of discussion.

SixofNine

And yet, some materialists take that same to someone relating an unexplainable experience.

you mean it's as if we aren't supposed to question it, because obviously the person "felt" it, and thereby experienced it and thereby it is the holiest of holys to those who can't handle a little applied skepticism? Pussies ;)

sabastious

Sorry, missed this one first time through. No, you never said it must be God, Sab, but your title equates it to a religious experience, and several of your respondents are saying it was, indeed, a religious experience. I am unaware of any experience typified as religious that precludes a god having a hand in it. (no pun intended).

This might have gotten lost in the posts:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/206612/7/So-me-of-all-people-had-a-religious-experience#3903784

-Sab

SweetBabyCheezits

And yet, some materialists take that same to someone relating an unexplainable experience.

I suppose the problem, for me, is that this doesn't appear to be unexplainable. Curious, sure. But the laws of propability seem to be at work, as usual... at least based on the details we've heard. Hence, some of us prefer to express skepticism as to what makes this account supernatural before we start back-patting and congratulating. (Although Sab is a great guy and I think it would be awesome if he had a special relationship moment a higher power.)

If there's more to know, I'd like to hear it. But as OTWO, Nick, and others have pointed out, there was no prediction made so it's hardly different than the lotto pulling 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 and a player (who didn't pick the right numbers) being amazed. Yes, the numbers are curious... but not unexplainable.

Even if someone chose the correct numbers in that curious lotto result (where the odds are still 1 in 1,198,774,720), it's still by no means unexplainable. But we accept those odds without batting an eye.

sabastious

Okay, so do this card thing with the intention of producing a "King-Low" ten times. Something you did not do when this unusual but well-within-probability event occurred.

I intend to just to see if it will happen again.

-Sab

So me, of all people, had a religious experience

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