Greetings all, and may you ALL have peace! Comments were made by dear Cofty (the greatest of love and peace to you! and thank you, dear tec and Inkie for your assistance - the greatest of love and peace to you both, as well!) re my responses and I think I should address them, if you all will bear with me, thank you! My responses are to dear Cofty, but perhaps they will help others understand where (or rather, whom) I am coming from. Yes, I know, that sounds "arrogant." It is not, truly. It is just the truth. Simply. Nothing more, nothing less. If you have a problem with my truth, I would ask that you take a moment, step back, and ask yourself just why that is. Since MY truth can neither add nor take away a cubit from anyone else's lifespan, it might be a good exercise to ponder why it "bothers" [any of] you, if indeed it does. Okay...
AGuest - How do you know that Jesus rebuked the scribes?
I know, dear one, because he (Christ, JAHESHUA) told me; NOT because I read it in the Bible. I had read the Bible, dear Cofty, like most everyone here; indeed I had "studied" it. Some would say in-depth. MANY people read the Bible, study it, can quote "scriptures" at the drop of a hat. What happened with me, though, is that I did not TRULY understand much of what was written in it (but, yes, I thought I did, as does others)... until my Lord himself began to teach me. And HE explained to me WHY he said, "Woe, to you, scribes...". Most, however, DON'T know why he said it. Those who believe the Bible to be inerrant certainly don't. And I am sure (though I believe it would be denied), most HERE didn't know what he meant... until he allowed me to share it with you.
AGuest says - "Fundies give great credence to what is written in the Bible"; then she makes a claim about what is written in the bible. Can't you see the irony
There's no irony, dear one, other than the fact that YOU seem to have problems listening (or rather, reading)! I have openly professed here... for YEARS... that I know what I know... SOME of which is in the Bible... NOT because of having read the Bible but because of hearing the voice of my Lord. As he said to me (and I have shared here MANY times): "All that I tell you IS written (but not necessarily in the Bible); yet, not all that is written (including and particularly in the Bible) is what I will tell you."
So, yeah, some of what he shares with me (and I subsequently share here, with you) is in the Bible. Some. And trust me, it's not really a lot, given all that IS in the Bible. Because HIS message (and the running theme of the Bible) is "put your faith in [him]... and everything else will be taken care of." Even knowing the truth. (And for those who would say, "Yeah, what about all those people who already have their faith in 'Jesus'?" I would say that they might wanna consider whether or not that really is the right 'person' to have one's faith in. As I've said here before. And if they were to say, "Well, that's who the BIBLE says to put our faith in," I would counter that that is one of the reasons one might not want to put their faith in the BIBLE... or, at least, in those who copied it... just as the BIBLE says.)
On the other hand, some of what he shares with me (and I subsequently share here, with you) is NOT written in the Bible (although I have NO doubt that it is written somewhere, as my Lord has said to me). And I have shared most of it here. For example, what spirit beings are and look like. What a serpent is (i.e., NOT a snake!). Who Michael and Belial actually are and their relationship to Christ. How the physical universe came into existence. What happened in the Garden (in Eden). That God SPEAKS, through Christ... who speaks.
The problem is that when I share things that are NOT written in the Bible, either in detail or at all, you all begin to ridicule and call me names. Even of "going beyond the things written [in the Bible]" or "changing things" written in the Bible. Of making things up and creating my own "truth." Of picking and choosing. Even those of you who DON'T believe the Bible. Even though I openly tell you who I receive it from and that it is NOT mine. Which is quite interesting: you ridicule and belittle the Bible but you want ME to stick unwaveringly to it! THAT is the irony... as well as the hypocrisy!
Those who believe in biblical inerrancy would not accpet that either the old or new testaments were written by scribes.
Which is ridiculous, if true (but I am not sure it is): First, Ezra was a scribe, so we know the books written by HIM were written by a scribe. Second, while some weren't written by scribes originally, they were certain COPIED... which is done by scribes. That is what a scribe did - copied the Law and other writings. Unfortunately, most did so for some kind of gain, whether it was their paid occupation (and thus they could be paid to writer whatever they're employer(s) desired), or whether for personal gain (including to change what they believed should be changed, etc.).
I know they changed/altered/tampered... and erred... in copying... because I saw it. My Lord SHOWED me the early process so that I saw it with my own eyes. He took me to a room in which 11-12 men were sitting around a long table piled high with scrolls. In the far corner of the room was another man sitting at a high table "overseeing" the process. His job was to make sure they (1) copied accurately and in the proper order, and (2) didn't fall asleep. Well, at least one of the men at the table had fallen asleep; a couple weren't as "educated" as their references led on (and so, didn't accurately know the meaning of the symbols they copied and so copied what they THOUGHT was being said/meant); a few had been hired to actually change certain things (things their "master(s)" believed differently); and a few were changing things to be as THEY felt they should be (i.e., changing them 'back' to what a previous scribe had written), etc. NONE, however, copies everything exactly, completely, and totally, accurate.
The vision wasn't to show me how the Bible literally has come to be what it has (and, given the numerous versions of Bibles today, my vision should have NO problem being considered as accurate, more so than the Bible!), but to show me the motive and intent of those who copied it over the millenia.
In any case Jesus never condemns them for failing to be good scribes but for hypocrisy and for ignoring the more important things like mercy.
But think, dear one: in what WAY did they ignore the more important things? BY WHAT THEY WROTE! For example, the irrational "conquests" of the Most Holy One of Israel. They wrote these things in order to put FEAR in the enemies of Israel. But were they accurate?? Most weren't, no. How can we know? Well, if our faith is in what's written in the Bible, we can look to the word of Christ who said, "I came... to bear witness to the truth." So, okay, what enemies did HE massacre? They did all kinds of things to him; yet, who did HE call down evil upon? Who did HE consider to be unclean? Who did HE judge and condemn? Who did HE tell to get circumcised? Where did HE say women should be quiet and wear head-coverings? Where did HE say that a woman caught in the act of adultery should be stoned? Yet, he FULFILLED the Law... and did not transgress one iota of it.
Now, did I get that from the Bible? No, I did not. I got when he questioned me about these things, just as Job was questioned. And THEN he showed me where these things were "written." AFTER he told me, not the other way around.
Where does it refer to a "lying pen"?
Thank you, dear Villalobo (and peace to you, as well!).
If the bible is not inspired, and its not, then how can anybody make any assertions that Jesus ever said anything in particular?
I can only answer personally, and that is to say one can if HE personally tells one! Which is why I can share what I so with the level of confidence that I do! I don't "think" I heard such and so. Or "believe" I did. I did. Again, I realize there are those who would take issue with that: "Who do you think you ARE, Shelby?" The truth, however, is that I don't think I am anyone. I didn't choose me - he did. That some don't understand that is... understandable. That some don't LIKE it is... irrelevant.
And any one of you would say the same thing if you were in my shoes. You would realize that what other people think is... nothing more than what other people think. And they can think what they will; it makes NO difference to what you hear or are given to see. And, yeah, you could give in and say, "Okay, you folks are right - I'm crazy... or making it all up." Problem is... that is not the TRUTH. Now, if you're a person who doesn't put much credence in truth, then you might not have a problem conceding to what such others say. But if truth IS important to you... and it truly is to me, now... then you could only say what is true. Whether others hear or refrain... whether they believe you... or not.
I am not brave, truly. And I am foolish, yes. I admit both things. But I not a liar... or a coward, sorry. And if I go through this life alone because of that, then so be it. But that hasn't been the case, thus far. To the contrary, those who love me... truly love me. Even some who once constituted themselves my enemy in this place. They may not hear what I hear or see what I see... but they have come to know me and know I am not a fake: I don't just speak the truth - I live it.
I was an evangelical for a decade after leaving the borg. I eventually concluded that facts and feelings didn't coincide
Their [religion's] facts and feeling, no. They never will... because they are teaching according to their OWN understanding, and NOT that which they receive from the Holy Spirit. And for those who would argue, "Well, THEY say it is from the Holy Spirit," I would counter... THEY don't know WHO the Holy Spirit IS, so that their saying it is from "him" is false shouldn't be a surprise!
and that facts were a better guide to what is true
They ARE!!! The difference between you and me, however, is that we each consider to be facts. You believe that only those things existing and "provable" in the physical world are facts. And while I agree that they ARE, I KNOW that they are not the ONLY facts... because the physical world isn't all that exists! There are worlds that we can't see with our physical eyes or hear with our physical ears. Yet, this is NOT proof against their existence. Our physical eyes and ears can't see a plethora of things that exist... even in the physical world... without certain tools to assist us. It is the exact same thing as to the spirit realm, with only three differences: (1) there are many tools to help us in the physical world, (2) they are physical, and (3) they are mechanical and inanimate; in the spirit realm, (1) there is only ONE Tool, (2) he is a spirit, and (3) he is a person and very much alive.
Dear SBC (peace to you!) stated:
Clear communication does not seem to be the Bible's strong suite when you consider tens of thousands of denominations exist, all of which cannot be right.
Exactly! Indeed, it has been the SOURCE of most of the confusion in the world... for the very fact that there ARE so many versions, translations, transliterations, interpretations, commentaries, teachings, doctrines, etc. Yet, they ALL have one thing in common: they contain a statement by one man who said:
"You are searching the scriptures because you think that by means of THEM you will have everlasting life. And these are the ones that bear witness about ME. Yet, you do not want to come to ME that you may have life."
Even those versions that contain the NT only have this verse. The problem is that folks... both believers (in the Bible) and non-believers (because of the Bible) do the OPPOSITE of what it SAYS to do, which is walk by FAITH... and NOT by sight. And so... they don't see or hear, themselves. Which makes them unable to accept anyone who says they do... even if that one has proven to NOT be like those they are used to... those who say they hear/see, but only so mislead others into supporting yet another "golden calf." Instead, again, all they CAN do is ridicule anyone who makes such profession. They can't even "live and let live," even if no harm is being done to them or others. They, too, still live in fear.
I heard a line, yesterday, from the movie, "The Matrix", however, that MIGHT help some who are still stuck in this way:
Morpheus: "You have to let it ALL go, Neo. Fear... doubt... and disbelief. Free YOUR MIND."
I heard this same admonition from my Lord about 15 years ago... and was one of the most truthful... and freeing... things I'd ever heard. The other is the word of my Lord that "You are greatly loved, child." Other than the "I love you's" I have since received from family and friends... and I receive MANY from both... nothing else matters. Especially not what others who do NOT know or love me think of me... or my faith.
In closing, I would like to say that some definitions of "Fundie" that I would definitely agree with include those from dear FlyingHighNow (peace to you, dear one!):
A fundi, to me: Believes the entire bible is written by God or inspired to be written, by him. Therefore, each and every thing it says is true. A fundie can be Muslim, believing the Koran to be completely true. Either kind of fundi is potentially very dangerous.
And dear Mindmelda (peace to you, as well!):
Anyone who believes in literal Biblical or their holy book's interpretations, and feels that gives them the right to literally interpret commands and demands from their God to do all things, including things unacceptable in the modern world like eradicate "God's Enemies".
A true christian, by means of an anointing with holy spirit (and, therefore, more than a "disciple", which is what most "christians" are)... does not return evil for evil... and not only prays for their enemies but forgives them. FOR-gives them, meaning is over it before the error against them has even been done. They do NOT put their trust OR faith in the Bible... or ANY written word... but in the Word of God, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Holy spirit... and so is not a "fundamentalist."
They are led by the Holy Spirit... through holy spirit... and not man or the writings of man; however, they realize that there are those who still walk by sight and so must SEE things written... with their eyes of flesh. Out of LOVE they accommodate such ones; however, they continue to pray for those who need such crutches... and REJOICE... when such ones are finally able to walk by faith... alone... as they, too, are led by holy spirit.
They themselves, however, don't NEED the Law written on stone... or in ink... because they have it written, by the Son of God... on their hearts.
I hope this helps and, again, the greatest of love and peace to you!
A very willing slave of Christ, who is not ashamed of that vocation, calling, and choosing... or that word, in light of what it means to HER...
SA