by cyberjesus 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
God does not mind. God wants us to advance, to be intelligent, to turn mysteries into understood facts, and to keep on searching for more as we improve our quality of life
and how do you know all of that?
Satanus: an atheist doesnt claim knowledge of the non existance of God. he just dont have enuf evidence to believe on one
But most atheists "KNOW" that IPU and the current monotheists' God will not show up.
Don't agree with you, OTWO. I know you are familiar with Dawkins' scale:
1 Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C. G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
2 Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.'
3 Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'
4 Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'
5 Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be sceptical.'
6 Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'
7 Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.'
And, as the esteemed Mr. Dawkins (who is considered to be one of the worlds foremost atheists, particularly by himself) says, "I'd be surprised to meet many people in category 7, but I include it for symmetry with category 1, which is well populated ... I count myself in category 6, but leaning towards 7- I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden. "
Carl Jung was hardly a theist in any usual sense. He repeatedly made clear he did not have delusions about a personal god figure. However at times his obsession with mysticsm compelled him to word things in ways others misunderstood to mean he was a believer. The famous quote above "I do not believe, I know" actually meant he wasn't tolerant of people "believing" in something but not having absolute conviction. He was irked about semantics. Dawkins's use of the quote was unfortunate.
he just dont have enuf evidence to believe on one
the burden of proof lies with the IPU'ists - atheists lack belief in the IPU and other similar concepts.
I try to avoid saying "I don't believe in god" as that leaves me open to the charge of taking a faith-based position.
"lacking belief" v "not believing" - semantics maybe, but we atheists value accuracy :-)
But then again Jung held many very bizarre notions especially late in life.
Besty, I appreciate the distinction.
Don't agree with you, OTWO. I know you are familiar with Dawkins' scale
It's all opinions. I tell ya what: I know the Invisible Pink Unicorn will not show up and reveal himself and I am absolutely 100% positive that the God of the Bible does not exist. As far as "short of zero" probability of any god (including the Invisible Pink Unicorn), it's a mathematical insignificance for me.
I don't insist that others all fall into nice categories so I retract my "most atheists" statement.
If you want to argue what "knowing" means, then fine. It is possible that we live in the matrix and everything is a computer-generated falsehood. We don't "know" anything. I mean, we were deceived as JW's, why not about life the universe, and everything? Outside of that possibility (and similar scenarios where reality is not this experience) I know what I know.
Imo, there is no such thing as an Atheist, only believers.
i dont believe in God like i believe black holes bend spacetime!
That some religious people make crazy semantic arguments should not scare anyone from using plain english.
CJ:
I know what I know. There is no convincing anyone of anything in this game, it is all just so personal. I have lived close to half my life as an agnostic/atheist, doing things every which way on my own, good and bad. I have finally, and by intention, gotten my personal proof, and it is far too special to me to ever sully it by posting it online. Even if I did, who would ever be convinced by it? All I can tell you is "ask and it shall be given", to quote a certain religious text. By "it", I mean that extra drive toward all that is good and true and, yes, knowledge of that which is not visible to the physical eye. Some of us, however, need to try and find "it" on our own, without any help. If you have not exhausted your mental resources trying to find "it" on your own, then there will always be some doubt even if you glimpse "it". Your ego will eventually tell you that it is responsible for the change and from there you slide down. Round and round we go. A certain amount of trial and error is necessary for some of us, the amount depending on the individual mind.
A journey of 1000 miles begins with one step, as we all know. A good first step is to ask the Source for help in overcoming some weakness that you know you cannot fully control on your own. Don't worry about religion or dogma or feeling foolish. Just humbly ask and see what happens.
