Some observations from the KM Elder School I wanted to share with you.

by miseryloveselders 139 Replies latest jw friends

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    WELCOME franklin massey!! Look forward to your contributions!!!

  • Think About It
    Think About It
    I resigned as an elder three months ago. I have a son in High School, we have saved money for his education. As the GB has taken a stronger stance against education, the more turned off I got. Last year at our elders meeting with the CO he read in his outline that an Elders qualifacations would be questioned if thier son or daughter received higher education I thought thats it,, I can't support this. (plus overlap crap, and other nutter stuff)

    Let's Think.......welcome to the board. Love the name. I applaud you my friend for taking a stand on principle and resigning. I resigned as an elder 15 years ago. Couldn't take the nutty stuff either. Wanted my HS age kids to eventually go to college and knew that would be an issue.(mainly gossip) The Pharisee legalistic approach & control of JW's by the Governing Body is the downfall of the WTS. They accept being a cult and fight all efforts to be as relatively normal & mainstream a religion that JW's can be.

    What kind of crazy cult in 2011 would basically threaten it's frontline leadership for sending their children to college? Oh yeah.....the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Think About It

  • sd-7
    Someone else is going to have to give me a hand on this one, cuz it left me in a tailspin. I felt like Mike Tyson during the 10th round of his fight with Buster Douglas.

    Sounds like someone needs to play a bit of Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!! Ever since I had my awakening, I was terrified of falling asleep at any meeting, assembly or convention. I never did so again. Not once. But...hope you get well soon, dude. Also, dude, '7-11'? Come on. You could've just said they were Indian. As a human, I find that classification objectionable. But that's just me, and I won't make any further fuss about that statement.

    That 'Trust the Faithful Slave' talk--wow, would've been nice to hear that one. Sounds like a riot act for the ages.

    The notion of the Governing Body starting in 33 CE is completely foreign to scripture. The term is not in the Bible, as the apostles were told to behave as 'brothers', not governors--the nations were the ones who engaged in that kind of behavior. Paul obviously didn't feel he needed their approval on anything, as he spent Galatians 1 and 2 explaining.

    The thing that makes this notion particularly foolish is that the Watchtower itself specifically and categorically denies any notion of 'organizing under one central authority' as late as 1929 (see January 1, 1929 WT, I think it's page 13, I did a thread on the GB recently). This would be a strange thing for Jesus to allow them to publish if it was utterly untrue.

    The notion of higher education disqualifying someone from being an elder is...pretty outrageous. Granted, practically every assembly and convention program I can remember has tried to beat higher education senseless at every opportunity. But this kind of interference with the consciences of the brothers is flat out wrong. Scriptural support for it is utterly lacking. Paul was a lawyer. Luke was a doctor. Daniel was a very well-educated government official. Solomon had wisdom that even the nations admired. God's servants come from all walks of life, and how one chooses to be educated has no bearing whatsoever on one's choice to worship God.

    I went to college myself and even took courses where the Gospel accounts were dismissed as propaganda. But I came out still believing in them just as much as I did before I went in. As of now, I understand that the Gospels may well be propaganda, but that's not important to me, whether that's the case or not. Like that Star Trek: The Next Generation episode, the one where the legendary Klingon warrior 'Kahless' supposedly returns, said, if the words or the philosophy is sound, why does it matter if the man himself returns? His words alone are pretty powerful.

    Anyway, this doesn't make sense. Poorly educated people cannot make as much money, or will have to work longer hours, and neither of those things benefits the bottom line of this or any religion, which is to make money. But on the other hand, less informed minds will be less likely to think for themselves, and the fewer educated people you have, the more of them you're likely to retain. In this way, less brain power = more bodies = more cash. So it turns out...maybe they have done the math on this.

    It's one thing to genuinely believe you're God's gift to mankind, but it's another to start throwing your weight around to this extent. I'm sorry, but this is why I had to get out of it. I can't see anyone staying in this for any reason once you fully understand their agenda. Certainly not at elder level. You're a party to their evils because they force you to be. Everyone's got their reasons, the people who stay in, and I respect their choices. But I'm just glad to be out. So...I admire your ability to eat crap, misery. Guess as long as you don't swallow, you'll make it. Thanks for sharing this inside story.


  • TheLoveDoctor

    Franklin Massey welcome and like to hear what you heard that push u

  • wasblind

    Welcome Franklin Massey

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer


    It is criminal of Watchtower not to support and encourage the sort of educational initiative demonstrated by your daughter and nephew and--forgive me for saying it in case it does not come out right--particularly given their ethic disposition. The black community is in desperate need of alpha types who refuse to cave to demeaning peer pressure and will not let themselves be kept from ongoing education. Your outspoken support of your relatives is undoubtedly helpful to them, but not only them. Watchtower should be doing the same thing, and we both know why. Watchtower wants folks to stay ignorant of anything that would challenge a word it says.


    Kudos for your mature support toward your niece. Love is a good thing, and sharing it is never a mistake. I’m sure it means a great deal for you and your niece to feel that love.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • traveb

    I reside in Silicon Valley, I wonder how this school went over with the elders and servants where I live? As you might imagine, housing in the Valley is ridiculously expensive, and going to college is a way of life here because it's a requirement to get a decent job. Not a great job mind you, but a job that will allow you to at least take care of your family. The amount of high-tech jobs here is staggering, and just to get your resume looked at you had better be college-educated.

    Because of this, a large percentage of JWs here have either attended college or are currently going to college, even elders. I'm talking about community college all the way to elite universities like Berkeley, and everything inbetween. I wonder if the Bethel speakers who came here realized this as they looked out on the audience and delivered their talks?

  • LostGeneration
    This grand puba has a tremendous stake in the rank in file. He makes his living by traveling to various congregations giving talks, and by doing whatever it is that he does at Bethel. If its true what they say that those recieving college educations are leaving this organization, it goes without saying that his and others like him are having their way of life threatened. They respond by threatening us. Another thing he stated was that if one chooses to pursue higher education, it shows they don't have loyalty to the faithful and discreet slave. The grand puba stated, "if you have loyalty to the faithful slave, then where's your son?" He also encouraged parents to financially support their adult children when they choose to pioneer.

    I just re read your post again and had to react to this. It really shows how they have become a full blown cult and have cut Jesus Christ out of the picture altogether. Loyalty to the faithful slave? Where in the bible is that!?!?!?!?! Supporting adult children when they pioneer? Can it be long before they mandate pioneering for all 18 year olds, just to fully brainwash them? They must be losing more late teens than ever, whether it be to college or just to freedom from the cult.

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Thank you for the welcome messages.

    As to what I heard that gave me that final push, it was the education issue. The language used at the school was very different from that which has appeared in printed page. I know that this is WT normalcy; but many of the seemingly unbelievable quotes mentioned earlier in this thread are true. Our speaker asked the group if they thought "they could find a way around the Governing Body's direction." Some of our most loyal elders, educated and uneducated, parents and childless, left the meeting confused and concerned on the issue. One brother said it sounded like the Society was backtracking on recent published info. Our Circuit Assembly also contained strong counsel to avoid higher education. The speaker cherry-picked, out of context quotes (outdated stats, articles from countries in other parts of the world that are not known for being progressive when it comes to education) to attempt to paint a negative picture of furthering ones education. I compared notes with friends from other parts of my country and they found the talk to be painfully (and awkwardly) slanted against education.

    I have dozens of reasons for joining the forum but this was "the straw that broke the camels back," so to speak.

  • TheLoveDoctor

    thank you for responding to my question and i like to here what u think of my post on the subject (faders I think we should) I posted it today and has not got the attention i hoped it would. cause we can do so much to help our fellow br. sis. trapped in a lie

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