aGuest; gave great info. I like to start by asking jw s if they want to live forever,? be resurrected on the last day? and the BIG QUESTION DO YOU believe the bible? and are you a foot step follower of jesus christ? the jw will answer yes. then I get out a red letter bible. open to john 6:48 - 6:60 I ask the jw do you know who's speaking in the red letters? I make sure they know Its Jesus. then I make them read it real slow stopping them after each sentence with the key word being anyone may eat this bread and live forever. then I ask them if they ate the bread and wine ? then I tell them you just called jesus christ a LIAR. you don't believe in the bible you just use it to back up wacky doctrines devised by a bunch of con men in brooklyn. the memorial is nothing more than a SATANIC RITUAL. to show that you really reject christ and worship the wts. Nick you posted your wife used to go to another church she may understand john 6 as for the part about jw's not going to heaven use mt 23:13 since the leaders of the wts know they ain't going to heaven they don't want anyone else to go. good luck with your wife.
Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments
JYD- Check with your local Seminary and gets things orthodoxed.
I love it, one Christian belief calling another Christian belief Satanic.
designs; look up groups that claim to worship satan. at their black mass one of their rituals is to put the bread and wine on a plate and reject it hence rejecting jesus . I'm sorry you can't see some of the methods I use on jw's. but if you could their faces after I get finished with them . You wouldn't be mocking me.
All great perspectives, suggestions and insights. I will re-read them over the course of the day and cross reference them with other material to understand their value and significance more fully. I very much appreciate all of this. Thank you.
An insight I was afforded in here a couple of days ago, one I did not appreciate at first, is there is an aspect of faith that one ignores only at the peril of others. And what could be more wrong than imperiling others? Some people don't need faith in their lives, others do. Faith to many is a sort of tether that keeps them together. I don't mean together as a group of faithful but together in the sense of self. I am an atheist. My truth is as raw and stark as it is wonderous and emancipating. To accept it, shoulder its weight and go on living is not something everyone has the capability of doing, let alone living life happily. If someone flees from you because she fears for her faith, it is because she perceives the alternative reality as a cold, dark, and terrifying abyss. Terror is a lonely place in one's mind from which one will do just about anything to escape, even the unthinkable. We should be careful not set out to destroy faith at its most basic, the oneness with some higher power deeply felt and treasured by some people. We should set out to destroy oppression, falsehood, manipulation and evil done in the name of faith like the cancers they are and allow those who simply need faith in their lives to retain it.
Oh I'll mock you anyway
People have made the claim about the Society being a Secret Society or having connections to Satanism before, boring. Go into any Conservative Presbyterian Church or Lutheran Church and they practice their own version of "Limited Atonement" and Limited Communion for certain members. Christianity geez.
Awakened.. I just watched your videos for the first time... Really well done. I enjoyed them a LOT
This thread has greatly raised my spirits today (may you all have peace!). For one, in the knowledge that so many others recognize the false denial to it's members of my Lord's flesh and blood by this organization... while telling them that they will be resurrected and live forever without it. A bold-faced lie and contradiction of my Lord's words... as they are set out "in the Bible."
But here's what hit me the most and it came from dear Nickolas (peace to you, as well!):
We should be careful not set out to destroy faith at its most basic, the oneness with some higher power deeply felt and treasured by some people. We should set out to destroy oppression, falsehood, manipulation and evil done in the name of faith like the cancers they are and allow those who simply need faith in their lives to retain it.
I don't think I've ever read a more... sublime... statement from a poster to date. And I am very grateful to have done so. We may have a right, indeed, even an obligation, to make others aware of how they've been misled, even lied to... particularly in the name of God. But one Bible writer (Paul?) said a VERY wise thing when he wrote:
"All things are lawful, but not all things are advantageous."
Regardless of your faith... or lack thereof (and I do not mean that as an offense but only as a truth)... no one has the right to kill another other than in defense of self or others. That is universal law. We all know it. We don't all know, however, that killing another's faith can be tantamount to killing that person. Literally, in some cases. I know for a CERTAIN... that the blood of some of "chosen" are on the hands of those of the WTBTS. Because, through this rank, foul, false prophet... with its false christs... many who WOULD have partaken... who KNEW they were supposed to... didn't. Unfortunately, they weren't able to live with themselves afterward.
So, I am glad that you, dear Nickolas, have concluded what you have. I hope others do, too. Because it is not upon any of us to call people TO God... or away from Him. The first belongs to Christ. The latter... belongs to each individual, individually. If we just stick to "debunking" false teachings... rather than focusing on what we THINK is a false belief... and TRYING to "kill" another... either of the two should occur on its own.
I bid you all peace.
A slave of Christ,
Aren't you just perpetuating another set of Beliefs just as unsupported as any other religious system. This whole notion that if you Believe and Practice x you get to go to Heaven or some other Reward and if you don't then its curtains is the core of all of these discussions as to the value of Religion in people's lives.
Case in point was the funeral I attended yesterday in a Protestant church, and the question was raised- why did God give this man cancer and take him to Heaven. People can do quite well without that conundrum.
I do agree with dear Shelby and with Nic,
we should beware simply trying to undermine the faith a person has, and I try never to do that, the discussion I had with my sister arose because she was trying to say that the "New System" as she calls it, was a reality soon to occur.
I said I found no reason to believe in that, or any "Afterlife", and so on we went.
She is a good case in point, she could not emotionally carry the trauma of finding her beliefs to be wrong, and of leaving the religion, it would send her raving mad, and she would have to be sectioned and kept in a mental hospital. I do not exaggerate.
So, I say little to her, and others I feel are in a similar position, such as my mother and other sister, but I will not let some things pass, as I think they need to know that I do not hold to any of their beliefs.
When they come out with an arrogant false statement I often cannot resist pointing out that at the very least, alternative points of view are as valid as theirs, and points of view firmly based on fact or on scripture are more valid than their baseless ones.
People's Beliefs seem to persist until some Aha moment brings about a change. Education, life experience all play into the process of our personal growth.
It can occur and accelerate beyond what we think a person can process. I met a man in AA a few years ago who was from Calcutta India and was from an outcast level of their society and had been in the sex slave trade. He wound up at Mother Theresa's Clinic where he was helped to kick his addictions, from there he immigrated to the USA and eventually entered UC Berkeley where he got his Phd.. People accomplish complete change is the message.