Debunking the Watchtower - Slam Dunks and Solid Arguments

by Nickolas 88 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    JW Cult Personality's immediate answer to Prodigal Son: "Oh, that can't be what that scripture means. I'll do a WT Library search about it sometime." And then they try to put it on the cognitive dissonance shelf and forget it.

    JW Cult member's authentic personality meanwhile mulls it over until the time is right, then pulls it off of the shelf and really thinks about it. This could be days, months, or even years later. You can only set aside facts that raise doubts for so long, and the more numerous and heavy those facts become, the harder it is to keep them "on the shelf."

  • jay88
    jay88

    What does it take for a person to be absolutely honest with themselves?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey WasBlind..

    WBT$ Truth has always had an Expiration Date..

    Jesus as Mediator..Gone

    Armageddon by 1975..Gone

    The Generation of 1914 will not pass away..Gone

    Ect..Ect..ect..

    A Can of Beans lasts longer that WBT$ Truth..

    http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/ba/banner-safe-can-beans.jpg

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • TD
    TD
    I am soliciting insightful conversation on debunking the Watchtower. There are some things that are slam dunks in my estimation - the vegetarianism of antideluvian animals and the age of man, for a couple of examples. Others require a more thoughtful argument, like the scriptural prohibition on blood.

    Slam dunks:

    A global flood

    The idea that the entire planet was once uniformly inhabitable. (i.e. Temperate to semi-tropical from pole to pole)

    The water canopy theory in all its forms (From Vail to Morris)

    The possibility of a wooden vessel of the size envisioned in the Genesis flood story

    The idea that horns, teeth, tusks, etc. were never intended to be used as weapons. (Similar, but slightly different issue than the all vegetarian ecology.)

    The survival of viral diseases which require a human host through a population bottleneck

    More thoughtful arguments:

    The idea of the 66 book Bible as a single contiguous work from cover to cover as opposed to a much more loosely organized anthology

    The mechanics of resurrection

    The gradual emergence of a third class of Christians who attain neither of the two destinies JW's believe Revelation 7 describes

  • Retrovirus
    Retrovirus

    What does it take for a person to be absolutely honest with themselves?

    That's what I wonder too. I showed my "Bible Study" ladies a clear error (I'd say a lie, but didn't want to upset them) in one of the booklets. They promised to find out and get back to me. Weeks passed without a mention. I asked again, and they told me to write to the Watchtower about it. I pointed out that it reflects on thier honesty if they distribute literature as "the truth" but will not even follow up something they cannt defend.

    No more "Bible Study". . .

    Retro

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    LOL @ Outlaw,

    I Get more laughs on this site than watching Comedy Central TV

  • Sayswho
    Sayswho

    Debunking the Watchtower:

    Freewillly...

    The videos were good...I can only suggest the swearing be taken out.

    Sw

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    What more could you ask for? Humour and insight. Thanks, all. Seems I have some research to do - thank you, TD and MS.

  • GrandmaJones
    GrandmaJones

    Nickolas

    I have been thinking about this myself. For the past two months, I have been talking to my family one at a time. (Well, the last one was practically "intervention" style) but it seems that there is always one answer. There appears to be more than one answer, but if you boil it all down, it's all "this isn't really god's organization, is it?" No one has been convinced by anything other than the proof of our history and the teachings of our own publications.

    Last night I read "Captives of a Concept" and realized that (in addition to the fact that had I read it six months ago, it would haved saved me a thousand hours of research) it suggested that it is all about whether or not this is Jehovah's organization! That was the argument I had with myself when I began reading old literature. I purchased all the old books strictly as historical curiosities, and read them just for laughs. Before long, I knew this was not god's organization.

    It's not about the cross, 607, the resurrection, immortality, etc. It's about whether or not this is Jehovah God's organization. There is really no other argument that matters....

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Are there others?

    The core... and binding premise... of WTBTS beliefs today, dear Nicklos (peace to you!) is their assertion that:

    1. There aretwo different "hopes"for those who belong to Christ, consisting of:

    2. A "heavenly" hope... which they teach is limited to "144,000" (who are not just from Israel but from all peoples... who go to heaven - andstay there - from where they rule as kings as priests); and

    3. An "earthly" hope, which they teach is limited to the "great crowd."

    In so teaching, they perpetuate the LIE that:

    4. Only the "144,000" are anointed and thus can partake of Christ's flesh and blood; yet

    5. That the "great crowd" can not only beresurrectedbutlive forever without doing so.

    According to even their Bible (the NWT), however, Christ himself absolutely taught differently, as follows:

    1. John 10:16 - "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. (See, Ephesians 4:4)

    2. Revelation 7:4 - "... the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel..." (See, Revelation 1:1,2)

    Revelation 7:15 - "... they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; ... the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life.

    Revelation 5:9, 10 - "And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your bloodyou bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings [over] the earth."

    Revelation 21: - I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.

    3. Revelation 5:9, 10 - "And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings [over] the earth."

    Revelation 21: - I saw also the holy city,New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.

    4. John 6:48-58 - "I am the bread of life. YOUR forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world. Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Accordingly [Jesus] said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, andI shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever."

    NOTE: Their use of 1 Corinthians 11:27 to KEEP ones from so partaking is a wicked LIE. ALL those to whom Paul addressed his letter had received the promised holy spirit and so were anointed. Thus, ALL were to partake. They were to DISCERN the body and blood of Christ... (because some either came full and didn't partake... or came hungry and tried to eat the bread/drink the wine as if IT were their supper - thus, they weren't coming together for the right "purpose"... to partake of Christ)... and cleanse the "inside" of their own "cups" (because some were harboring anger against... or guilty of judging... another), however, BEFORE doing so. Paul was telling them... all of whom partook... HOW to partake. He was NOT telling them that there were some who should never, ever partake because they had a "different" hope!)

    5. John 6:51-54 - "Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

    By this very false teaching, this lie, they literally fulfill my Lord's prophecies as recorded at Matthew 23:13, 15:

    "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for YOU yourselves do not go in, neither do YOU permit those on their way in to go in. -- "Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge·hen´na twice as much so as yourselves.

    [It is worthy to note that they also fulfill my Lord's words recorded in verse 14 (which is not in the "regular" NWT, but can be found in the footnote of the Ref. NWT) as to their evil greediness, which words speak for themselves: "... because you devour widows' houses and for a pretense offer long prayers..."]

    There is more, of course, MUCH more. But this is where I have been directed by my Lord to start, in response to your question. If more of their members got the sense of the TRUTH... as to there being only ONE hope... one that starts OUT as heavenly, but ends UP as earthly... that it pertains to ALL who belong to Christ... whether of the 144,000 from among the sons of Israel OR the great crowd... that such hope is realized by means of a UNION with him... which union STARTS... with their eating his flesh and drinking his blood... and that ALL those in union with him... whether of Israel OR of the great crowd... constitute the "holy nation"... ISRAEL... and so PARTOOK... as they MUST in order to resurrected and/or live FOREVER... they, the WTBTS, just might find itself in a bit of a pickle. It would be rocked to its very foundation.

    Won't ever happen, though, before my Lord returns. Why? Because of the misleadings about this very important truth and the false modesty that so many have as a result:

    "You are/I am not worthy of partaking, of being anointed, of going to heaven."

    NO ONE is worthy, dear one. Which is why it's called MERCY - UNdeserved kindness. ALL those who belong to Christ as part of his Body, however, whether from among the sons of Israel... OR the great crowd... will absolutely go to heaven. For their literal marriage to Christ, the King. The Holy Spirit. After which all, INCLUDING HIM... will return and sit down on thrones... upon the earth. And because God will reside IN that "Temple"... New Jerusalem... He, TOO... will "come down."

    God's "tent" (dwelling) with be with mankind! On the earth. Through the establishment... ON the earth... of His Kingdom. NEW Jerusalem. Thus, "Thy kingdom... COME. Thy will be done... on earth". NOT... "Look, mankind will be with GOD (in heaven).

    Israel's hope was ALWAYS for a resurrection on earth. Abraham was looking for a city not made with hands, yes... and one "belonging to heaven." But that City only BELONGS to heaven... to the spirit realm. As did the garden in Eden. It won't be IN heaven, however (nor was the garden in Eden) but upon the earth. As was the garden... in Eden.

    I hope this helps.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

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