Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller 443 Replies latest jw friends

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  lisaBObeesa

  @lisaBObesa wrote:You are quite right about the "firm position" on 1975. It was more like a very strong position on 1975 possibly being the end because the Watchtower said that 'reliable' chronology was pointing to that year, and a very "firm position"on the end coming before the generation of 1914 passed away.

  djeggnog wrote: I could, but what you are saying here is just semantics, a kind of word game really, that some people love playing. Your quote from an older Watchtower article that "the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6,000 years of human experience...," ends with both the question, "Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jesus Christ?" and the answer, "It very well could, but we will have to wait to see." But how does this question and answer from this older Watchtower article prove that Jehovah's Witnesses ever took a firm position or a "very strong position" as to 1975 being more than the year the marked the end of 6,000 years since mankind's creation (in 4026 BC)?

  This Watchtower quote is proof that the Watchtower said that that 1975 "VERY WELL COULD" be the "TIME WHEN GOD EXECUTES THE WICKED."

  Let's drop the semantics as you say.

  Let's not call it a 'firm position' on 1975 possibly being the end of the world.

  Let's not call it a 'strong position' on 1975 possibly being the end of the world.

  Let's just state the facts: "The Watchtower took a position that 1975 very well might be when God executes the wicked."

  We were promised that the end would come during the generation that began in the year 1914 when the sign of Jesus' invisible presence and the conclusion of this system of things began.

  Exactly. That is what the Watchtower has repeatedly promised Jehovah's Witnesses. They said that they KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN before the generation alive in 1914 passed away. But they didn't KNOW. They were just guessing. THEY LIED to you.

  Now when exactly will this generation of the sign end? Nobody knows the answer to this question, but because Jehovah's Witnesses reasoned that the word "generation" signified the life span of someone that had been alive in 1914 when the generation began, and so we concluded that the conclusion of this system of things would arrive at some point before the last of this 1914 generation had passed away.

  Right. I know this. I was there for that part of the LIE. And they took a 'very firm position' on that one. It was taught as a FACT. It was taught as GOD'S PROMISE. It was called "The Truth." Yet it was NOT "The Truth." It was FALSE. It was wrong.

  It was the opposite of "Truth."

  We are now 96 years removed from the year 1914 and the end has not yet arrived, and while the end could come within the next ten years -- I only just heard Andy Rooney say on 60 Minutes tonight "that there are more than 70,000 people in the United States over 100 years old" -- at which time some of the anointed of whom we used to call the "1914 generation" would by 2020 be 106 years old. But Jehovah's Witnesses must now adjust their understanding of the expression, "the 1914 generation," so that it accords with what we now know to be what Jesus meant when using the word "generation" at Matthew 24:34. We now realize that the word "generation" was used by Jesus to signify the period of time that began in 1914 when Jesus' presence would be discerned by his followers.

  Yes, yes. 'Adjust your understanding' AFTER the prophesy doesn't come true. It doesn't take God's One True Religion working under the direction of the Holy Spirit to do that.

  Anybody can do that.
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  OUTLAW

  There was nothing magical about the year 1975, except to those among Jehovah's Witnesses like you

  that had decided or were persuaded to believe 1975 to have [had] more significance than it had,

  and many of those who ran ahead of God's organization and had begun to spread this man-made doctrine like wildfire,

  from one end of the globe to the other......DjEggNogg

  Those of us who were there..Know your a Liar..

  Every JW knows the penalty for preaching anything not WBT$ Approved..

  Had any JW preached anything,not WBT$ Approved..They would have been DF`d..

  According to you..The WBT$ lost control of a large group of JW`s Pre-1975,for decades..

  Your an Idiot..

  ............................ ...OUTLAW
• 

  3dogs1husband

  DJEggNogg

  I speak from my heart. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. (long before the internet and discovering this website) What lead me away from Jehovah's Orginization? No one is sure of their salvation. Every long lifer I ever knew felt not good enough for Jehovah, and worried everyday if they will make it. When my husbands 80 year old grandpa, who worked at bethal, wbbr, sold his house for 75, on his death bed is unsure if he did enough for Jehovah.....is thankful he will die in this system because then he will at least be brought back. And when my brother who struggles with reading and public speaking, decides the only sure way to the new system is the "underground railway" in a pine boxcar. My very very diligent very good JW mother, who has lived her whole life for Jehovah, does not think she is going to make it most days...unless she can do more.

  I lived this life I know my reality.... I was preparred to die at arrmagedon. I never thought I could do enough to make it......although I kept trying and trying to live up to the standards. I UNLIKE YOU never ever ever went to webstites like this...I didnt even know they existed.

  So needless to say when I read your reply:

  Let me put it this way: Anyone that listens to you will die. There is no one that refuses to listen to us that will be saved. Period. By our paying constant attention to ourselves and to what we teach, and living our lives in accord with these things, Jehovah's Witnesses have faith thatwe will save not just ourselvesbut those who listen to us. (1 Timothy 4:16)

  I say to you: YOU ONLY HOPE TO SAVE YOURSELF!
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  Leolaia

  I am a serious Bible student and I would judge your spirituality as weak based on your telling me here that you were one of those "Bible students" that actually believed the end was coming in 1975, a teaching that smacks of apostasy since you should have known that such a teaching totally contradicts Jesus' words at Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 that 'nobody knows that day or hour.'

  Charles Sinutko was one of those "Bible Students" who thought the tribulation would come even before 1975 ("And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then"). But hey, he was just a district overseer, it was common for them I guess to have a weak spirituality and apostate leanings. Or is it that Sinutko didn't claim to know the "day or hour" because the end could well come in 1974, or in 1973, or 1972, or 1971, etc.

  In saying what he does at Mark 13:32, Jesus Christ knew that we would not be able to calculate the "day and hour" because he knew one vital piece of information was unknown to us and is not revealed anywhere in the Bible: The date of Eve's creation. So we logically know that Eve could not have been created any earlier than 35 years after Adam's creation, but what if Eve was created, say, just five years later or 40 years after Adam's creation? That would then logically mean that Christ's Millennial reign will not occur before the year 2015. Or don't you understand this?

  This ignores the fact that the Society did claim to know when Eve was created (4026 BCE) in the lead up to 1975.
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  The Finger

  "I am a serious Bible student and I would judge your spirituality as weak based on your telling me here that you were one of those "Bible students" that actually believed the end was coming in 1975, I am a serious Bible student and I would judge your spirituality as weak based on your telling me here that you were one of those "Bible students" that actually believed the end was coming in 1975, a teaching that smacks of apostasy since you should have known that such a teaching totally contradicts Jesus' words at Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 that 'nobody knows that day or hour.since you should have known that such a teaching totally contradicts Jesus' words at Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 that 'nobody knows that day or hour."

  djEggnog,

  I think it was Freddy who brought the subject up of the ending of the 6000 years are you suggesting he was an apostate? Do you think there is a big enough difference between suggesting and believing. Do you know what was in Fred Franz mind? Do you think he may have believed this himself? Would you, did you write to him and tell him how wrong it was? Or are you now just blaming those who listened to Christ's brothers and joined them in preaching these things.
• 

  The Finger

  Djeggnog,

  maybe you were too busy making a comfortable life for yourself rather than spending long days trying to save lives.
• 

  thetrueone

  Seems old Djeggnog has been fully indoctrinated with the Watchtower publishing company's discernibly weak

  scholarship regarding ancient historical events. Maybe you should reexamine that pyramid a little closer you may have dropped

  a few inches here and there. Let it be clearly understood that the year 1914 proclaimed by the WTS. started and had much to do

  with the somewhat illogical belief in Pyramidology. The coincidence of World War I starting that year created even more believability to

  to the hearing public. When it was latter on perceived to be a false ideology by booze Rurtherfraud he realized it couldn't be utilized anymore,

  so he demonetized the whole thought suggestion. This proceeded in creating another problem for him though, since so much was postulated

  about 1914 as a monumental date for mankind they had to embrace another calculation to cover the previous bogus dating.

  ( this is what is referred to as new light in Watchtower language ) by the way, so the 7 X times from the destruction of ancient

  Jerusalem was created. Religious charlatans are so cunning aren't they !

  The Fall Of Jerusalem

  

  "In the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month - which was the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon - Nebuzaradan, the captain of the bodyguard, a servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem . And he burned the house of The Lord (see Temples ), and the king's house and all the houses of Jerusalem; every great house he burned down. And all the army of the Chaldeans, who were with the captain of the guard, broke down the walls around Jerusalem. And the rest of the people who were left in the city and the deserters who had deserted to the king of Babylon, together with the rest of the multitude, Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard carried into exile. But the captain of the guard left some of the poorest of the land to be vinedressers and plowmen."

  "And the pillars of bronze that were in the house of The Lord, and the stands and the bronze sea that were in the house of The Lord, the Chaldeans broke in pieces, and carried the bronze to Babylon. And they took away the pots, and the shovels, and the snuffers, and the dishes for incense and all the vessels of bronze used in the temple service, the firepans also, and the bowls. What was of gold the captain of the guard took away as gold, and what was of silver, as silver."

  "As for the two pillars, the one sea, and the stands, which Solomon had made for the house of The Lord, the bronze of all these vessels was beyond weight. The height of the one pillar was eighteen cubits, and upon it was a capital of bronze; the height of the capital was three cubits; a network and pomegranates, all of bronze, were upon the capital round about. And the second pillar had the like, with the network."

  "And the captain of the guard took Seraiah the chief priest, and Zephaniah the second priest, and the three keepers of the threshold; and from the city he took an officer who had been in command of the men of war, and five men of the king's council who were found in the city; and the secretary of the commander of the army who mustered the people of the land; and sixty men of the people of the land who were found in the city. And Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard took them, and brought them to the king of Babylon at Riblah. And the king of Babylon smote them, and put them to death at Riblah in the land of Hamath. So Judah was taken into exile out of its land." (2 Kings 25:8-21 RSV)

  One thing the WTS didn't recognize in their calculations is that Nebuchadnezzar didn't take the throne until 605 BCE so adding 19 years to the

  date of Jerusalem's capture brings the date to 586 BCE. Which is recognized by throughout the world as being the actual date and is now

  supported by archaeological findings ( scribed tablets ) uncovered in the ruins of ancient Babylon.

  ( and no those ancient scribes didn't write false dates to fool people 2000 in the future )

  So djeggnog, I'd suggest you research information in this forum around the 607 date and lets see if it stands against real theological

  dates of events which occurred in ancient times.

  You describe yourself as being spiritually strong within the Watchtower organization but in reality your quite intellectually weak

  and poorly educated on important and known facts. Not totally your fault though being that you were educated by religious

  charlatans who own a publishing house. ( have never known or met a JWS that has a Phd. in theology )

  The truth will set you free djeggnog, you just have to find it and don't expect it to come knocking at your door one Saturday morning

  by someone with a smile on their face.
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  aligot ripounsous

  Thank you, DJ, for going into such a long development and taking a lot of your time to prove that Jerusalem was destroyed in - 607 and not in - 587. To me it doesn't really matter, that is why I mentioned both dates in my post, pending a possible third one (who knows with the WTS), which would make you feel regret for having pleaded too much for -607. In any case I'm pretty sure that the occurrence of Armageddon won't hinge on such petty calculation in Jehovah's purpose. Remember, nobody knows, except the father, so why should we be fussy about dates and quibble ?
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  garyneal

  I liken the whole 607 BCE thing to Jesus not being born on Christmas day.

  Go to any encyclopedia and you will see, Jesus was not born on 12-25.

  That is their favorite mantra to show unsuspecting householders that they know the TRUTH concerning Christmas and that they are following Jehovah and His ways.

  But tell them to 'go to any encyclopedia' to prove 607 BCE is not the date for the Babylonian captivity of Jerusalem and all of a sudden the game changes. Encyclopedias are to no longer be trusted. If it contradicts the SLAVE, it must be from Satan. Then they go on and try to use the Bible to prove 607 BCE, even suggesting that the Bible confirms that date when there are no dates in the Bible.

  They just keep their minds closed.
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  garyneal

  so why should we be fussy about dates and quibble ?

  It is used by the Society as their anchor date for their authority on Earth today. Without it, the 'man behind the curtain' is exposed that the Society is little more than another religious publishing house. The Jehovah's Witnesses, just another sect of Christianity.

  Without it, they cannot claim to be the only true religion chosen by Jehovah God and His Son Jesus in 1919.