tsk tsk ... @djchristmas answered everyone but me ... i believe that we all want to know why his name is associated with a pagan holiday ... he righteously defends the WTS on one hand .. and sits at the table of demons with his avatar name ...
Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?
by Red Piller 443 Replies latest jw friends
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Ding
"Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. the generation that was old enough to view those events with understanding in 1914 is no longer young. It no longer has many years to run. Already many of its members have died. But Jesus showed that there would still be members of "this generation" alive at the time of the passing away of this wicked system of things in both heaven and earth. (Luke 21:32, 33)"
At this point, the WTS was claiming that by "this generation" Jesus was talking about people who were old enough to view the events of 1914 with understanding.
As "God's sole channel of communication," they promoted this view for years and required JWs to teach it at the door and in KHs throughout the world.
JWs who did not agree with this teaching were nonetheless required to accept it as "truth" from Jehovah's faithful and discreet slave class.
The new generation teaching shows that the WTS now admits that this view was wrong.
WT 7/1/1973, p. 402: "Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit, or active force. Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone, God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book... How very much true Christians appreciate associating with the only organization on earth that understands the `deep things of God.'"
"Is This Life All There Is?", 1974, p. 46: "It is obvious that the true God, who is himself `the God of truth,' and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehool."
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Listener
Eggnog -However, Bible prophecies are from God, while the interpretations of Jehovah's Witnesses are our own based upon what the spirit says in God's word. Anyone that doesn't understands the difference between a Bible prophecy and an interpretation, anyone that doesn't appreciate how the spirit guides our understanding of Bible prophecy, that is, through what things the Bible says, would be in darkness on this issue. I can assure you that I am not in darkness.
W 81 2/15
True, the brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18) However, this has resulted in a continual refining of the body of Bible-based truth to which Jehovah’s Witnesses subscribe. Over the years, as adjustments have been made to that body of truth, it has become ever more wonderful and applicable to our lives in these “last days.” Bible commentators of Christendom are not inspired either. Despite their claims to great knowledge, they have failed to highlight even basic Bible truths—such as the coming Paradise earth, the importance of God’s name, and the condition of the dead.
Rather, the record that the “faithful and discreet slave” organization has made for the past more than 100 years forces us to the conclusion that Peter expressed when Jesus asked if his apostles also wanted to leave him, namely, “Whom shall we go away to?” (John 6:66-69) No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the “faithful and discreet slave” organization.
We can conclude then that the org does not have the truth but instead are working towards the truth. God's word is truth and no refinements are necessary as truth cannot be changed. What was once truth in the org. has later been changed rendering the previous taught truth as being false and therefore as this continues to happen there can be no declaration that they have the truth, just something getting closer to the truth.
But unfortunately, as seen in the quote above, they jump to the wrong conclusion. If they had the truth (the whole truth and nothing but the truth) then they would be correct. They say that scriptural guidance cannot be fround outside the faithfull and discreet slave. As they claim they and only they are the fds. This doesn't seem right when there are other religions that also teach truth to some degree and it comes down to a matter of earthly mans interpretation. Just as the jws change their truth they really have no substance to be able to claim they are the only ones that can provide scriptural guidance.
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Listener
I gather eggnogs view would be something like - well you are free to search out another religion that you feel may have the truth and all the best with your endeavours. However, this does nothing in addressing the JWs claims that they are the only ones that can lead a person to salvation.
By saying they exclusively provide the means by which a person can serve and worship God and have the opportunity for deliverance are they really sancifying God's name?
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NewYork44M
Has eggnog indicated that he lived as a witness in the 70s? I did, and I can attest to the fact that your spirituality was judged based upon your belief that the end was coming in 1975.
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JunkYardDog
djeggnog . I'm surprised no one brought fact that the whole 1914 generation stuff is nothing more than a cover up for that Great bible
TRUTH THAT THE WTS WAS TEACHING FROM THE 1870'S TILL 1915 THAT THE WORLD WAS GOING TO END IN 1914 OR 1915. THAT THE TIME OF THE END STARTED IN 1799 , JESUS RETURNED IN 1872,73,1974, SAT ON THE THRONE IN 1878 6000 YEARS WAS OVER IN 1873 AND 76. THE BIG A WAS TO HAPPEN IN 1881 1884 THE 40 YEAR GENERATION FROM 1874 WILL FINISH WITH ARMAGEDDON IN OCT 1914 . THE GREAT TRIBULATION WAS TO START IN 1872,73,74,78,81,1905,1907,1910,1912, WW1, 1918 1936.ETC. THE RAPTURE WAS TO HAPPEN IN 1843 1844, 1865, 1914, 1920 1921, 1932 , ARMAGEDDON FOR 1920 1925, 1941, 1951 1954 ETC. I know I left out a few dozen dates but you get the idea. ALL THIS BLASPHEMY WAS TAUGHT AS "PROPER SPRITUAL AT THE PROPER TIME" FROM THE TABLE OF JEHOVAH. MEAT IN DUE SEASON. INCONTRAVERTABLE BIBLE FACTS !!!!!!!! TRUTH ETC. OF COURSE THE WTS NEVER TELLS THE TRUTH ABOUT ANY OF THIS STUFF TODAY . THEY JUST KEEP LYING IN NEW WT MAGS ABOUT THIER HISTORY... DJEGGNOG YOU REALLY NEED A WT HISTORY LESSON. COME BACK HERE AND CALL ME OUT IN ABOUT A YEAR AFTER YOU LOOK UP ALL THESE DATES.
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TD
DJ,
I didn't make a statistical mistake at all. I merely pointed out the basis upon which Jehovah's Witnesses calculate the "seven times" at Daniel 4:25 as being equal to 2,520 years counting from 607 BC to 1914 AD. You are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses and so I do not expect you to understand the point that I was making. I'm satisfied that you are unwilling to learn about these things that Jehovah's Witnesses take so seriously, and which serve to strengthen their faith in Jehovah. You joined this thread to argue with me and I knew this when I responded to your post, but I thought it important to clarify the point that I was making for the benefit of those lurking this thread, who might otherwise conclude that you had uncovered a flaw in our reasoning with respect to our calculation of Daniel's "seven times," which you did not.
Nonsense.
I understand how important the interpretation of the seven times of Daniel is to JW's and I haven't argued with you over that. I've disagreed with you over whether a 360 day year can legitimately be derived from the Jewish calendar.
I even offered a way out by suggesting Van Goudoever's idea of a "Prophetic year" as a mean between true lunar and true solar years as an alternative way to get the 360 day years you need to derive the 2520 year period and still keep the interpretation intact. This effectively sidesteps the need to consider the Jewish calendar at all.
Which party is only interested in argument for its own sake? You dismissed that idea out of hand despite the fact that it can be found in JW literature and is even partially quoted. (All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial "Study 2 --Time and the Holy Scriptures" p. 282 all editions.)
I didn't fuss or whine, @TD; I stand firm in my statement here that you are a liar, and that when I asked you specific questions that would have proved that you were such, you evaded them. When I'm interrogating someone, I tend to ask the right questions, which is not an "interrogative fallacy" were you to soil yourself upon walking into such, so I'll give it to you that you were smart to evade my questions. What's good about this exchange between us, @TD, is that now I believe I know more about you than I knew before this particular exchange began.
You're a funny guy. Pointing out that the 59 day double lunation is incompatible with a 360 day year is not a lie. Pointing out that a lunisolar calender is incompatible with a 360 day year is not a lie. Pointing out that the Jewish calender does not incorporate a 360 day year is not a lie. Pointing out that the mean length of a year in days in the Jewish calendar is not 360 days is not a lie. You've yet to produce a factually incorrect statement to accompany the invective.
Numbers don't lie, but people who mishandle them sometimes do. The specific questions that you have posed to me have all incorporated a cumulative rounding error where the average length of a year in days is rounded by several days when there is not a mathematically valid reason to round the average length of a year in days by any more than a fractional amount of a day.
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designs
"I disagree, but ok". DJ what I laid out is JW eschatology 101 with or without dates. The Society is caught between the proverbial rock and a hardpalce by still believing in a literal 1000 year Millennium but distancing themsleves from the 6000 year first part. Still they cling to their formula of Adam to Armageddon and then the Millennium.
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Leolaia
I even offered a way out by suggesting Van Goudoever's idea of a "Prophetic year" as a mean between true lunar and true solar years as an alternative way to get the 360 day years you need to derive the 2520 year period and still keep the interpretation intact.
I must've missed your reference to Van Goudoever; do you have a reference? I have an article by Van Goudoever in the 1993 Leuven volume on Daniel and he is strictly talking about the so-called Zadokite calendar, i.e. the same sabbatical schematic calendar I have been talking about in this thread, not some imagined "prophetic year" that compromises between true lunar and solar years. I would be shocked if Van Goudoever used the expression "prophetic year" which imo betrays an ignorance of the kinds of calendars the ancient Jews used.
Pointing out that a lunisolar calender is incompatible with a 360 day year is not a lie. Pointing out that the Jewish calender does not incorporate a 360 day year is not a lie.
Not to be pedantic, but there was not a single "Jewish calendar" and it was the sabbatical calendar that incorporated a 360-day year and it was also compatible with the lunisolar calendar, as there are documents at Qumran and earlier in the Book of Luminaries that endeavor to synchronize the two calendars.
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thetrueone
Of having put faith in the interpretations of Jehovah's Witnesses instead of in the infallibility of God's word, the Bible, and that is so sad. You have allowed the explanations of the Scriptures that have been provided you over the years by Jehovah's Witnesses, our own interpretations of various Bible passages just as Christendom's churches have advanced their own interpretations of the Bible, to stumble you because you truly believed that our having the truth means that or interpretations of the Scriptures would be as infallible as the Bible is infallible, when nothing could be further from the truth.
What a bunch of disingenuous trash talk to support a corrupt and dishonest publishing/company religion that he himself belongs to.
Here's a list of djeggnog's self protecting and held on to disillusions.......
1. the WTS was established to honestly and accurately interpret the bible with no discretionary inclusion of circulating or propagating literature.
2. the proclamation that Christ returned to earth in 1914 to battle Satan and bring forth the final judgment day for all mankind,
wasn't a proclamation intensionally devised to attract the publics attention and help in the circulation of the WTS's own literature,
which would also cultivate a discerning amount of power for the head leaders ( Presidents/GB members )
( talk about vile corruption with a religious flavor attached )
3. Every religious organization has assorted amount of lies attached to themselves that are hidden away from the people they are trying to convert.
4. The 6000 in total years of man's existence ending up to September 1975 wasn't a calculation of dishonest provocation.
5. There are many more as we are aware but I don't want to waste my time .....really
6. and finally he doesn't think we know that he's trying to slam the door on exposing the WTS's
self devised and established corruption, with the intension of protecting his own obtained power that he
holds on to as an elder in his congregation, exposing himself for who he really is......power is absolute after all.