by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hi elderelite
I simply don't agree they were't just nice guys that pat your back but men with responsibility in the congregations they looked after.
1 Timothy 5:17 (New International Version)
17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.
Don't put words in my mouth
Oh ho, that's rich. You don't read your own posts, do you? I simply repeated what you said and then made an observation about how the GB/FDS has already overstepped and tried to kick Jesus out of the equation.
But I suppose that's too much for you to grasp.
Hi Mrs Jones
I never said anything about preaching being a Gift. It isn't a gift! The gifts we get help us do the preaching work (which is the command laid on us) and help support the flock as well.
Witnesses have never claimed that we gain Salvation through preaching work or any gift! Salvation comes through Jesus's sacrifice and Jehovah's underserved kindness on us. Preaching work is about saving the lifes of those who are responsive to God's word. Ask any witness we don't preach to be saved but too save.
@ debator...dude..haven't you figured it out....Jesus is Jehovah...
duhh...-bh
mrsjones5 The bible I read says there are many spiritual gifts manifesting in the body of Christ. Why doesn't the bOrg agree with the bible?
The borg it is nothing to do with the body of Christ and it hates the message of the bible.
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
The gifts of the Spirit are written about extensively in the New Testament. If you want to see prophecy, speak in tongues, interpretation of tongues, healing, words of knowledge, miraculous powers in action you need to find believers who are baptised in the Spirit, not just water, same as these dudes at Ephesus.
3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.
4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
Blessings,
Stephen
So the ethical and philosophical difficulties still need to be addressed regarding Grace (CHARIS) and a Supreme Being who grants it.
What happens to persons who reject this Belief.
How do you reconcile the ultimatum built into the Belief, the real damaging message. 'Jesus loves you', and 'God is love' sound nice but what is it really saying. The second part is where the ethical and philosophical problems arise. The next part is the Threat- 'You must love and worship me or else I will Judge You and Set You On Fire and Torture you for all Eternity'.
This is a textbook case describing a pathological predator. When you teach this to your children it is Abuse. So how do you reconcile and justify teaching this to children. How do you address the ethical and philosophical difficulty inherent in this Belief.
Debator/Reniaa:
Hi Mrs Jones
I never said anything about preaching being a Gift. It isn't a gift! The gifts we get help us do the preaching work (which is the command laid on us) and help support the flock as well.
Witnesses have never claimed that we gain Salvation through preaching work or any gift! Salvation comes through Jesus's sacrifice and Jehovah's underserved kindness on us. Preaching work is about saving the lifes of those who are responsive to God's word. Ask any witness we don't preach to be saved but too save
My reply: On one hand that is how it is laid out. But on the other hand Witnesses are taught that they need to earn favor with God, who will hopefully find them worthy of salvation. So, on the other hand they belie what they say there.
Debator
Preaching work is about saving the lifes of those who are responsive to God's word. Ask any witness we don't preach to be saved but too save.
So who is saved, have you seen any fruit? If you die today are you saved? How would you know?
I have to say that the JW 'preaching work', while touted as a life-saving work (as tough preaching the orgs false prophecies would be life-saving)...is seen by a majority of JWs as more of a duty, something they have to do...an activity and not so much a life-saving work...where the goal is to 'keep the time going'.
Deputy Dog-
Saved from what? That is the ethical and philosophical delima. How do you navigate the ultimate Bullying message 'Love me or else".
