by Dogpatch 270 Replies latest jw friends

  • wasblind


  • wasblind

    Must be out reading their Reasoning books

  • wasblind

    Debator says: "But claiming to be inspired and be say words directly from Jehovah is"

    Sept, 15 2010 WatchTower, page 13 paragraph 8 states: "Thus, what is taught is not from men, but from Jehovah."

    Repeat, they said it's from JEHOVAH

  • wasblind

    Do the math Debator, the GB + WTS = False prophets

  • wasblind

    Debator said:" they have to openly claim they have been given the ACTUAL INSPIRED WORDS FROM GOD HIMSELF"

    Debator, don't forget to pick up the Sept 15, 2010 Watchtower page 13 paragraph 8 that says " Thus, what is taught is not from men, but from JEHOVAH."

  • debator

    The debates disappears from the topic of false prophecy onto simply quoting very edited info that isn't from the bible. Essan changes the goal posts from false prophecy and claiming inspiration. to predicting specifically the time for Armageddon itself. Looking for Jesus's "perusia" and looking for the signs that point to the tribulation coming is not a crime neither is it predicting Armageddon.

    But again You are going beyond the bible which makes it clear the grounds for false prophecy is to say you have got inspiration,words,visions directly from God. I notice you all have given up on the bible and resort to easier targets.

    Thank you Wasblind and Essan for replying to the topic at hand even If I don't agree with you.

    Wasblind if you are using the bible which is Jehovah's word (and sword of the spirit) you are being directed by Jehovah but this isn't claiming inspiration. Jews would say they are God's people directed by God himself but that doesn't mean that each Jew thought they were "inspired" of God.

    That fact you have to goto other sources rather than the bible, to try and lay the accusation of false prophecy on witnesses really shows your Bias which is back to my original point.

  • wasblind

    Debator says:" I notice you all have given up on the bible and resort to easier targets."

    and he also says: "That fact you have to goto other sources rather than the bible, to try and lay the accusation of false prophecy on witnesses."

    Ha Ha Ha ,

    Debator you have been told just like the rest of us that we could not understand the Bible without the WT literature.

    you, just like the rest of us ,have been encouraged to read the literature more so than the Bible, and now that you see

    for yourself it's a bunch of junk, these are not words of an apostate these are words of the WTS.

  • wasblind

    And for your information, i don't need to go to any source but to the WT literature, to prove you are false prophets.

    you don't believe what i'm saying look it up yourself, that's what you been doing all these hours anyway.

  • wasblind

    The Bible have already called the GB out as false prophets, and the WT literature backs it up!!!!!

  • Essan

    Debator, no, the 'Goalposts" you set were unscriptural, as I proved, and were only placed there by you to try to exonerate the Society, although you had to contradict the Society to do it.

    I insisted the 'goalposts' were set according to the Bible's descriptions of 'false prophets' and their own claims in which the words 'inspiration' and 'prophet' are almost never mentioned by them - despite your false claim that it was a "Bible Fact" that these words HAD to be used BY THEM in order to identify them as a false prophet.

    "Looking" for the the fulfillment of Bible prophesy is OK but please don't insult our intelligence by pretending that the Society was merely "looking". They were vocally predicting Armageddon - predicting a specific DATE for Armageddon - preaching it, and claiming this insight is sure and came from God, all of which the Society has done numerous times! This COMPLETELY fits the Biblical definition for a "False Prophet" - and the very Org. you idolize admits it! You too know it full well.

    You said: But again You are going beyond the bible which makes it clear the grounds for false prophecy is to say you have got inspiration, words, visions directly from God.

    You're a liar Debator.

    I asked you to provide verses to show that this consistent 'rule' you insist upon was uniformly shown in the Bible and you could not.

    So here are a few verses - along with some Society quotes - to show that one does NOT have to specifically claim "inspiration" or even call oneself a "prophet" in order to be condemned as a 'False Prophet' as you lyingly insist and to show God's relationship to those who make false predictions and those who make true ones:

    "Thus says the LORD,your Redeemer... who who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, who turns wise men back and makes their knowledge foolish, who confirms the word of HIS servant and fulfills the counsel of HIS messengers" Isaiah 44:20-26

    "Bible prophecy shows that the Lord was due to appear for the second time in the year 1874. Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that he did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable. All true watchers are familiar with these facts as set forth in the Scriptures and explained in the interpretation by the Lord's special servant...Do you believe it? Do you believe that the King of glory is present, and has been since 1874? - The WT, November 1, 1922, pp.332-337

    "Then Joseph said to them, "Do not interpretations belong to GOD?" "Then the chief cupbearer said to Pharaoh "a young Hebrew was there with us...he interpreted them for us...And things turned out exactly as he interpreted... Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I have heard it said of you that... you can interpret... "I cannot do it," Joseph replied to Pharaoh, "but GOD will give Pharaoh the answer... So Pharaoh asked them, "Can we find anyone like this man, one in whom is the spirit of God?" Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Since GOD has made all this known to you, there is no one so discerning and wise as you." - Gen 40-41

    Interpretation of sacred secret's belongs only to God and can only successfully occur BY GOD, to the extent that Joseph could say of such interpretation "God did this". True interpretation is part of the work of true prophet, like Joseph and like the "prophet Daniel", therefore wrong interpretation and the preaching of wrong predictions based on wrong interpretation is the work of a "False Prophet".

    "Then Daniel went to Arioch... and said to him... Take me to the king, and I will interpret his dream for him...The king asked Daniel (also called Belteshazzar), "Are you able to...interpret it?" Daniel replied, "No wise man, enchanter, magician or diviner can explain to the king the mystery he has asked about, but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries. He has shown King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in days to come...As for me, this mystery has been revealed to me, not because I have greater wisdom than other living men, but so that you, O king, may know the interpretation...The great God has shown the king what will take place... and the interpretation is trustworthy. The king said to Daniel, "Surely your God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery." - Dan 2 "Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote... The queen, "O king, live forever!" she said. "There is a man in your kingdom who has the spirit of the holy gods in him. This man Daniel, was found to have...the ability to interpret..Call for Daniel, and he will tell you what the writing means...the king said to him "...I have heard that you are able to give interpretations and to solve difficult problems."

    Now, let's hear from those who try to interpret God's writings and so to predict the future, claiming his authority as spokesmen, and yet fail spectacularly, because, unlike the Prophet Daniel, they are "False Prophets":

    "The Kingdom of God IS already begun, which is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" which WILL END in 1914 with the COMPLETE overthrow of the earth's present rulership, is already commenced." - Studies in the Scriptures Vol.2, 1906 p.101

    Russell spoke of: "...the truths I present, as God's mouthpiece" and said that "this clear unfolding of truth" he proclaimed was NOT "due to any human ingenuity or acuteness of perception, but to the simple fact that God's due time has come." - WT7/15/06, p.229 Russell predicted falsely and blamed God for it, he was only 'God's mouthpiece' declaring "truth" ONLY because it was "God's due time"- that's a perfect description of a self proclaimed 'Prophet', is it not?

    " Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying liesin my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds." "Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD."- Jeremiah 14, 23.

    "The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of any of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower. (Watchtower, Nov. 1 1931 p. 327) A blatant claim that the Watchtower contains only the words of God.

    "We see no reason for changing the figures — nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God’s dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is NOT the date for the beginning, but for the END of the time of trouble." - The WT Reprints, July 15, 1894, p. 1677.

    " But the PROPHET.... will be recognized as one truly sent by the LORD only if his PREDICTION comes true. " - Jeremiah 28:9 (Prophets predict, prediction indicates acting as a 'prophet', therefore failed prediction shows you are a "False prophet").

    "and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people ." - Matt 24:11

    "All of the Lord’s people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin, and mourning, and the Lord’s people were greatly in reproach . They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their ‘prophecies’ had not been fulfilled." - Light , 1930 p.194

    " A sword against her false prophets! They will become fools! " - Jeremiah 50:36. "I know I made an ass of myself." - 'Judge' Rutherford.

    "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible." "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and SIGNS and LYING WONDERS, And with all DECEIVABLENESS of unrighteousness in them that perish... And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

    So do the WTBTS make use of a false and "lying sign" to supposedly prove their authority as God's spokesman? Yes!

    "For 38 years PRIOR to 1914, the Bible Students, as Jehovah's Witnesses were then called, pointed to that date as the year when the Gentile Times would end. What outstanding proof that is that they were true servants of Jehovah!" - WT 1990 10/15 p. 19 "

    Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the START of "the conclusion of the system of things." -

    Awake! 1973 January 22 p.8

    But this is a complete lie:

    "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is NOTthe date for the BEGINNING , but for the END of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 July 15 p.226

    "The Watchtower has CONSISTENTLY presented evidence?that Jesus' presence in heavenly Kingdom power BEGAN in 1914." WT 1993 January 15 pp.5,9

    "The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord...." Studies in the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.239

    “ We would like to correct this misapprehension once for all , by stating that we do not expect Jesus to come this year, nor any other year , for we believe that ALL time prophecies (bearing upon Jesus' coming) ENDED at and before the fall of 1874" -

    Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence May 1 1881


    " This chronology is NOT OF MAN, BUT OF GOD . Being of DIVINE ORIGIN and divinely corroborated , present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct .... " (Watchtower, July 15, 1922)

    "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old , particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).

    "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914 ," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).

    "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures . As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge ," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).

    So, JW's told by the Society that the likes of Abraham would definitely be raised to human life in 1925 have MORE REASON TO BELIEVE than Noah did, who was told

    that the deluge would come directly by GOD! Breathtaking. What prophet ever claimed he was able to deliver a message more reliable than than one delivered by God himself ? Only the WTBS!

    More coming.....

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