@Essan:
The ironic thing is, you have the air of someone who confidently believes they are skillfully getting away unnoticed with being a monumental bloviating blowhard.
If in your view the fact that I feel no obligation whatsoever toward helping @Podobear convince a Pentecostal minister, two of them actually, that Jehovah isn't omnipresent -- when @Podobear tells me these men have family members who, like me, are Jehovah's Witnesses, men who like me were "taught by Jehovah" (Isaiah 54:13; John 6:45) -- is something that makes me a "monumental bloviating blowhard," then in your eyes I'll be a M.B.B.
Now as I understand it, @Podobear has been out of the truth for some 25 years, and although I do study the Bible with inactive Jehovah's Witnesses as well as active one, he's not asked me to study the Bible with him. Unless you consider yourself to be one of my Bible studies, which you aren't, then why would you think I should feel obliged to pursue @Podobear's inquiry into a matter that is of no significance to me?
I have an ex parte motion to prepare for a case that the attorney with whom I work that must be served by fax tomorrow morning, and I also have a motion to set aside the default judgment that was entered in this particular case on which I am working to do.
Maybe because you and I are here exchanging posts with one another on this forum, you wouldn't think it absurd were I to ask you come into the office and transcribe a relatively short, 15 minutes at the most, tape for me on my PC. Now my "dragon," that is, Dragon NaturallySpeaking, doesn't know your voice so it won't transcribe a word you say to it, but you may be able to knock out the tape in half an hour, and while there may be a few names probably unfamiliar to you, like "Kartheiser" and "Melendrez" (these are brief names of cases), and words like "rebuttable" and "presumption," I dictated no words like "bloviating" or "blowhard." It should be a piece of cake for you!
It would save me some time if you could get here in an hour so that you can start transcribing the tape by 8:30 pm, local time here in Los Angeles (which is a little less than an hour from now as I write this) and maybe by 9:30 pm I'll be done and ready for tomorrow. But if you should not feel any obligation whatsoever to come to Los Angeles so that you can transcribe this tape for me, to help me out, even after you and I have exchanged posts and everything, then I need you to tell me this: Would this make you a M.B.B., too? Or, do you now view this idea to be as absurd as yours as to my unwillingness to help @Podobear win some theological debating points with folks that would only use this information in their pulpits to spruce up the Sunday morning sermon?
I've no interest in either pursuing or engaging in a discussion with anyone about the flaws and imperfect reasoning of now-deceased Jehovah's Witnesses, and I mean Charles Russell and Joseph Rutherford, and Fred Franz, too. These men are all dead now, all of them imperfect, and their future life prospects are in God's hands now, and yet it is thrilling for so many of the folks that come to this forum, whose posts over the years -- I've read many of them -- are critical of the theological viewpoints that these men held when they were alive. Why not even the Lord Jesus Christ could survive the scrutiny from some of the folks here, like from @elderelite, from @yknot and from you!
The beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are progressive and not static, even though everyone here knows that the majority of Christendom's beliefs -- such as its beliefs regarding the trinity -- are static and not progressive.
For example, Jehovah's Witnesses used to believe when Jesus used the words "this generation" at Matthew 24:34, that the generation to which he was referring was the 1914 generation consisting of people old enough to comprehend what things were taking place at that time; then over the years it was thought that by "this generation," Jesus was referring to his anointed brothers that were alive in 1914 so that the great tribulation's arrival would be before the last one of these anointed brothers had deceased. Not more than 15 years ago, "this generation" was thought to have been people alienated from God who were contemporaries of Jesus' anointed brothers during the generation beginning in 1914 until the great tribulation, who would ultimately be destroyed at Armageddon.
Well what about today? Since the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are not static, but are progressive, our understanding of this prophecy at Matthew 24:34 has increased as it becomes clearer to us that what we had discerned in the past to be true had been in error. We are not ashamed and are quite candid in telling folks that we were wrong. Jesus admonished his followers to "keep on the watch," so while Jehovah's Witnesses are as anxious as are our opposers to see all false religion brought to a screeching halt by world leaders, we are confident that such watchfulness on our part will pay off, and so we must be willing to adjust our viewpoint on such vital matters as the foretold end approaches, despite the confidence that the naysayers on this forum lack. (Matthew 24:42; 2 Peter 3:4)
The holy spirit has indicated where mention of a generation that is much longer than just 20 or 23 years that we typically think of as being a generation. Joseph's "generation" turned out to be 110 years! That generation was Joseph's, for at Exodus 1:6, the Bible makes reference not just to Joseph's brothers, but it says to "all his brothers and all that generation." The F&DS as represented by the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have pondered the significance of what the holy spirit is saying here at Exodus 1:6, but it is clear that the spirit does refer to Joseph's contemporaries, in that the lives of Joseph's siblings and Joseph's two sons Manasseh and Ephraim, who were both alive when their father died -- overlapped Joseph's life. Just as Joseph's life had both a beginning and an ending, likewise the sign that Jesus provides us in Matthew chapters 24 and 25 has both a beginning and an ending.
Jesus was referring to the generation of the remnant of his anointed brothers that were alive during 1914 that saw the events that portended the beginning of the sign as well as their contemporaries that would also see the events that portended the end of the sign with the coming great tribulation that precedes the end of this system of things. It has been explained that the lives of those that were alive in 1914 would therefore overlap the lives of those that would be alive when the great tribulation begins. Since almost 100 years have passed since 1914, we now know that Jesus couldn't have had in mind a 20- or 23-year generation, so we can now infer that Jesus was referring to a period of time as a "generation."
We can do no more than speculate as to the year when the end will come, for literally adding 110 years to the year 1914, we arrive at the year 2024, but even though we are sure that the year 1914 marked the beginning of "this generation," Jesus stated at Mark 13:22 that no one would know the "day or the hour" when the end of "this generation" would arrive. But the point being made here is that those of Jesus' anointed brothers, whose lives overlap, that were alive during this generation would not all of them will "pass away until all these things occur."
Now that was a rather lengthy example, but this is on everyone's mind, so that I thought I should mention it in the context of folks speaking so slightingly of the dead since Russell, Rutherford, Knorr and Franz had all died before this progressive understanding of Matthew 24:34 became known to the entire association of Jehovah's Witnesses. Discussions about this have been had over the years among the governing body and others, but only when it was discerned what the holy spirit says at Exodus 1:6 did we need to make an adjustment.
There is no "up-side" in speaking slightingly of the dead and my attitude about helping @Podobear with information so that he could just pass it on to these two Pentecostal pastors is that I'm going to let the dead bury the dead, while I continue to "declare ... the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:60) Why? Because, like I said, I hold no theologically partnership with the Pentecostal faith.
One more thing, @Essan: I'm pretty sure that everyone here "notices" me, which is fine, because I want to encourage "fading" Jehovah's Witnesses to stay in the faith, and those that are ex-Jehovah's Witnesses to live up to the vow of dedication that they made to Jehovah. Because I'm "noticed" here, I cannot afford to ever let down my guard here because "you guys" are no joke, and neither is Jehovah (who is always watching and "paying attention" [Malachi 3:16]!), and I don't believe eternal death is any prize to be coveted by the one that wins it either.
P.S.: I'm glad that you rethought your earlier decision, when he told me in a previous post:
I won't be responding to you further.
First, I'm not a bad guy, and second, I believe you're the one that's busted! <g>
@Psacramento:
Angels are created beings and as such, by their nature, are NOT divine.
This sounds like something that @UnDisfellowshipped would say, but I would like you to review Psalm 8:5, which describes the angels as "godlike ones" (hebrew, elohim), and then compare this thought with what the apostle Paul writes when quoting this very psalm at Hebrews 2:7, referring to these "godlike ones as "angels." And like the angels, the 144,000 are destined to become "sharers in divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), too, but they will have a higher station than the angels, and they will each have an incorruptible body just as Jesus has, as well as that same divine quality bodily that God and Jesus have, namely, immortality. (Colossians 1:19; 2:9)
What is created is, what it is and nothing more, what is begotten is of the same nature that [begot] it.
Amen.
@UnDisfellowshipped:
It wasn't my intention to hurt @Podobear's feelings, but to tell him the truth as to why it was I had no interest in providing the information that you just provided @Podobear from our literature. Perhaps he can use what you provided; perhaps not. But as I stated earlier in this thread to @yknot, you can pray day and night for anyone you wish, @UnDisfellowshipped, and Jehovah is not listening to the prayers of those that are not searching for him or that have dedicated themselves to do His will and are not doing it. (Matthew 7:21-23; Hebrews 3:12; James 1:6-8; Psalm 109:7; Proverbs 15:29)
@djeggnog