TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped 457 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Podobear
    Podobear

    @djeggnogg: I think your comments to me are a little over the top, to say the least, and may I say the display of the very reason I left the WT organisation. I have not kept up with "current" thinking on the matter. I have always believed that Jehovah exists in THIS Universe... Pleiades aside I had no idea that the teaching had been ditched in favour of a parallel Universe.

    HOW DARE YOU JUDGE AND INSULT ME. I was trying to make my way back, my father comes to visit in two days and I have to deal with an opposing mother and a depressed man who is facing major surgery and anxiety over the blood issue.

    You call yourself an Elder? You have just knocked me back ten paces! Thanks for nothing buddy. Let Jehovah be your judge too. BIGOT!

    Podo -

  • yknot
    yknot

    DJ Eggnog,

    Why are you so defensive?

    Seriously .... I haven't been 'hateful' nor 'attacked' you.

    On the other hand you have been disrespectful and offensive by your sexism.

    If you want to be taken seriously you need to show a great deal more respect, patience, logic and ration than you have in the past few pages.

    You are bringing reproach.....

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Podobear,

    Wow, I cannot believe the lack of respect and the rudeness that djeggnog is showing to you, and not only to you, but also to every other person in this thread.

    At the beginning of this thread djeggnog seemed to be reasonable and seemed to be respectful toward others.

    But, starting at the moment when I showed him that he is teaching things that do NOT agree with the Channel of Communication (Governing Body/Faithful Slave Class), then his attitude has taken a horrible turn for the worst toward not only me, but all of you.

    Djeggnog has even been rude and disrespectful toward those who simply asked him questions so they could have a better understanding, like yourself, Podo.

    Djeggnog will have to answer to Jehovah God the Almighty for how he is treating the hurting, seeking people here, the "lost sheep" of Jesus, and for stumbling people and bringing reproach on God's glorious Divine Name, as well as for teaching falsehoods that do not agree with the Bible (and that do not even agree with the Watchtower Society).

    Podo, you are correct that the Watchtower Society originally taught that Jehovah resided in the Pleiades (or some other location in the physical heavens).

    However, in later years (especially beginning in the 1970's and 80's), the Watchtower Society now teaches that Jehovah does NOT reside anywhere in the physical universe, but He lives in a separate "spirit realm" or dimension.

    Here is the latest "spiritual food" I could locate from the "Channel of Communication" about this subject:

    Insight Book, Volume 1, Pages 1,060-1,061 (Published in 1988):

    Spiritual Heavens. The same original-language words used for the physical heavens are also applied to the spiritual heavens. As has been seen, Jehovah God does not reside in the physical heavens, being a Spirit. However, since he is “the High and Lofty One” who resides in “the height” (Isa 57:15), the basic sense of that which is “lifted up” or “lofty” expressed in the Hebrew-language word makes it appropriate to describe God’s “lofty abode of holiness and beauty.” (Isa 63:15; Ps 33:13, 14; 115:3) As the Maker of the physical heavens (Ge 14:19; Ps 33:6), Jehovah is also their Owner. (Ps 115:15, 16) Whatever is his pleasure to do in them, he does, including miraculous acts.—Ps 135:6.

    In many texts, therefore, the “heavens” stand for God himself and his sovereign position. His throne is in the heavens, that is, in the spirit realm over which he also rules. (Ps 103:19-21; 2Ch 20:6; Mt 23:22; Ac 7:49) From his supreme or ultimate position, Jehovah, in effect, ‘looks down’ upon the physical heavens and earth (Ps 14:2; 102:19; 113:6), and from this lofty position also speaks, answers petitions, and renders judgment. (1Ki 8:49; Ps 2:4-6; 76:8; Mt 3:17) So we read that Hezekiah and Isaiah, in the face of a grave threat, “kept praying . . . and crying to the heavens for aid.” (2Ch 32:20; compare 2Ch 30:27.) Jesus, too, used the heavens as representing God when asking the religious leaders whether the source of John’s baptism was “from heaven or from men.” (Mt 21:25; compare Joh 3:27.) The prodigal son confessed to having sinned “against heaven” as well as against his own father. (Lu 15:18, 21) “The kingdom of the heavens,” then, means not merely that it is based in and rules from the spiritual heavens but also that it is “the kingdom of God.”—Da 2:44; Mt 4:17; 21:43; 2Ti 4:18.

    Also because of God’s heavenly position, both men and angels raised hands or faces toward the heavens in calling upon him to act (Ex 9:22, 23; 10:21, 22), in swearing to an oath (Da 12:7), and in prayer (1Ki 8:22, 23; La 3:41; Mt 14:19; Joh 17:1). At Deuteronomy 32:40 Jehovah speaks of himself as ‘raising his hand to heaven in an oath.’ In harmony with Hebrews 6:13, this evidently means that Jehovah swears by himself.—Compare Isa 45:23.

    Angelic dwelling place.The spiritual heavens are also the “proper dwelling place” of God’s spirit sons. (Jude 6; Ge 28:12, 13; Mt 18:10; 24:36) The expression “army of the heavens,” often applied to the stellar creation, sometimes describes these angelic sons of God. (1Ki 22:19; compare Ps 103:20, 21; Da 7:10; Lu 2:13; Re 19:14.) So, too, “the heavens” are personified as representing this angelic organization, “the congregation of the holy ones.”—Ps 89:5-7; compare Lu 15:7, 10; Re 12:12.

    ______________________________________________

    Insight Book, Volume 1, Page 187 (Published in 1988):

    Thus Jesus’ ascension, while beginning with an upward movement, from the viewpoint of his disciples, may have thereafter taken any direction required to bring him into his Father’s heavenly presence. It was an ascension not only as to direction but, more important, as to the sphere of activity and level of existence in the spirit realm and in the lofty presence of the Most High God, a realm not governed by human dimensions or directions.—Compare Heb 2:7, 9.

    ______________________________________________

    Isaiah's Prophecy Book, Volume 2, Pages 391-392 (Published in 2001):

    Of course, a king would not reside upon his footstool, nor does Jehovah reside upon this earth. Why, even the vast physical heavens cannot contain him! Far less so could any mere building on the earth accommodate Jehovah so as to serve literally as a house for him. (1 Kings 8:27) Jehovah’s throne and his resting-place are located in the spirit realm, which is the sense of the expression “the heavens” as used at Isaiah 66:1. The next verse drives the point home: “‘Now all these things my own hand has made, so that all these came to be,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.” (Isaiah 66:2a) Picture Jehovah making a sweeping gesture as he points out “all these things”—everything in heaven and on earth. (Isaiah 40:26; Revelation 10:6) As the Grand Creator of all the universe, he deserves to have more than a mere building devoted to him. He deserves more than merely an outward form of worship.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Podobear,

    You said:

    "I was trying to make my way back, my father comes to visit in two days and I have to deal with an opposing mother and a depressed man who is facing major surgery and anxiety over the blood issue."

    If you would like to talk about anything about the Bible or the Watchtower Society's current teachings, or just need a friend, you can send me a PM or an e-mail to [email protected]

    I do hope and pray that Jehovah and Jesus through the Holy Spirit will comfort and bless you, and will guide you into all the truth of God's Inspired Word, and that The Father will draw you into a personal relationship with His Son (John 6:44) and also that He will reveal to you the true identity and nature of His Son. (John 8:24)

    I commend you for seeking to better understand the Bible and God and Jesus, and I hope you remember and always keep these Scriptural promises in mind when you are seeking the truth:

    Psalm 9:10 (NLT): you, O L ORD , do not abandon those who search for you.

    Matthew 7:7-8 (NLT): "Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.

    Hebrews 6:10 (NLT): For God is not unjust. He will not forget how hard you have worked for him and how you have shown your love to him

    Matthew 11:28-30 (NLT): Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to bear, and the burden I give you is light."

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Podobear,

    Here are a few threads I thought might be helpful with the Blood issue:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/50314/1/Questions-for-Jehovahs-Witnesses-about-Blood

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/71628/1/New-BLOOD-Watchtower-June-15-2004-Issue

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/36891/1/BLOOD-Transfusion-CHANGES

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/49360/1/CONGREGATION-CONTRADICTIONS-Weekly-1-Children-Being-Sacrificed

    And, I wanted to let you know that the brand-newest Watchtower Book that I believe is meant to be studied as the 2nd book for new Bible Studies ("Keep Yourselves in God's Love"), says that it is NOW a "conscience matter" whether you accept hemoglobin and also whether you store your own blood to be used later.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    djeggnog,

    I don't even know where to begin.

    You harshly criticize and judge others.

    You are haughty and proud and you brag and boast about your position and your authority and your headship.

    You are not at all showing yourself to be meek or humble.

    You teach things that do not agree with the Watchtower Society.

    You cling to "Old Light" that was published in the 1960's and 70's that is very outdated.

    You ignore or overlook the "New Light" published in the 2000s.

    You rebuke people in this thread for doing the exact same things that you are doing (except you are doing them to a larger degree and also you are doing them while claiming to represent Jehovah).

    You are teaching falsehoods in the Name of Jehovah God and in the name of His Channel of Communication.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    djeggnog,

    I don't even know where to begin.

    You harshly criticize and judge others.

    You are haughty and proud and you brag and boast about your position and your authority and your headship.

    You are not at all showing yourself to be meek or humble.

    You teach things that do not agree with the Watchtower Society.

    You cling to "Old Light" that was published in the 1960's and 70's that is very outdated.

    You ignore or overlook the "New Light" published in the 2000s.

    You rebuke people in this thread for doing the exact same things that you are doing (except you are doing them to a larger degree and also you are doing them while claiming to represent Jehovah).

    You are teaching falsehoods in the Name of Jehovah God and in the name of His Channel of Communication.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Accidental double-post

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Accidental double-post

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    I will continue to post my Scriptural, Bible-based case for why I believe in the Trinity, but not tonight, I have to head to work now for an overnight shift.

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