Biggest Harm Caused by Watchtower in AllTimeJeff Eyes.

by Scott77 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    Debator said "Is this an offical apostate site then? My understanding is that it is a site for witnesses to debate. As witnessese are warned about internet usage as we are warned on Television and other easily abused entertainment and social outlets but it is more of a self-regulating issue, personal conscience in fact."

    Whatever you need to tell yourself debator. This is just another example of your cognitive dissonance. You say you think this is a site for Witnesses to debate??? is that to debate one another, i.e. witnesses debating witnesses? C'mon - that's about the stupidest statement I've ever heard. That's like somebody saying 'I'm just checking out porn to see how bad it is. Besides, it's really a conscience matter anyway.' Let me clear this up for you right now.

    I am still an active elder and can tell you first hand by experience that if your BOE found out you were visiting this site - even if you were so naive to think you were just trying to debate with other witnesses - they would counsel you with many recent articles and basically tell you not to do it. If you continued, you probably wouldn't be disfellowshipped but you would certainly be marked. However, depending on the BOE, one might even bring it up with the CO, and he might recommend making it a judicial matter as you have Blatantly shown a disregard for the FDS and strong specific counsel given to you numerous times. Your brazen attitude could be considered one of Loose Conduct.

    There are very few, if any, full on full believiing and practicing witnesses here. (Your posts are now starting to make me question if you really are) If there are some that lurk here and don't post, as did I for a few months - well then I must say that your posts will be significant in derailing their faith in the JW org. To watch you fail at making any kind of convincing argument about the charitable acts of WT - and then stubbornly refuse to admit where you're wrong - you remind too many lurkers of the mentality present among the JWs. Basically it's something like this "I'm right about everything - you're wrong about everything where you don't see eye to eye with me about JW doctrine"

    But the fact is - you are here. You know inside you're deliberately disobeying so-called 'Bible based counsel by the FDS'. Have you ever heard the illustration about how you wouldn't invite somebody bad into your home, but you'd be willing to have them in via tv (now the internet). You're actually doing much worse than that - you're having two way interaction with those who in your mind have left Jehovah, right in your very own home. Anybody that sees your posts knows that you're not trying to post for other JWs. What makes you think other JWs even need you to do that for them.

    But despite your denials, your actions say something very clear - that you don't believe all the direction from the WT applies to you.

    In doing so, you are also saying that you don't believe the direction from the WT comes from God. Indeed this is something we both have in common. I realize you'll find some kind of illogical words to deny this - but you're here - so your actions say something different. Thus, regardless of the failed content of your posts - their very existence reiterates what we already know: The WT and JWs are not God's sole channel for humanity. For confirming that, debator, we thank you.

  • debator

    Hi Just n from Bethel

    I must admit your position is confusing? You say you are a practising elder who comes on this site then condemn yourself for being on here?

    My position is not as forceful as yours I have never gone on ex-Jw sites but this isn't one. It is a Jehovah's witness site by it's title and blog and witnesses do come on here. They may get a surprise by the amount of ex-Jws and non-Jws on here as I was but then we defend the faith as well as debate with non-Jws that wish to debate on certain topics and want to know the witness bible understanding on it.

    From our literature I get the point that we are warned against these things and this is a self-regulating thing. But I accept you disagree.

    Hi Gayle

    If you do not wish to read my posts I fully accept your choice. But this is a Jehovah's witness forum why would you be surprised to find witnesses on it? rather than an ex-Jw forum that probably doesn't allow current witnesses on them?

  • elderelite

    x2 for what Just in said, Debator.

    The fact is, Just in said "full on beleiving JW's". I too am currently an Elder (save it Mosche), and am 100% in agreement with what Just in said about being delt with. YOu would be told to associate with so many that are obvioiusly apostates would be akin to agreeing with them. We just had a symposium at the last CA that commented on this. I know because I gave the part. I'd be glad to email you the outline for your inspection. Notice as well the following quotes




    ? WhatarethedangersofusingtheInternettoassociatewithsomeonewedonotknow?

    A number of Web sites have been designed for people to meet and correspond over the Internet. Many of these sites allow individuals to create and post their own profile, which may include pictures and other personal information. People who view the profile can then make contact. Such Web sites are very popular among young people, and some youths in the congregation have used them to interact with others who claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    It is easy for a person whom we meet over the Internet to be deceptive about his identity, his spirituality, or his motives. (Ps. 26:4) An individual claiming to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses may actually be an unbeliever, a disfellowshipped person, or even an active apostate. (Gal. 2:4) Reportedly, many pedophiles use such Web sites to find their victims.

    Even if we are convinced that those with whom we are corresponding are in good standing in the congregation, conversations in such a setting can easily drift toward unwholesome material. This is because people tend to be less inhibited with individuals they have not met personally. They may also view online communication as private and feel that whatever they say will not come to the attention of others, such as their parents or the elders. Sadly, a number of youths from Christian households have been ensnared and have become involved in obscene speech. (Eph. 5:3, 4; Col. 3:8) Others have included sexually provocative pictures of themselves, suggestive nicknames, or links to sexually explicit music videos in their computer profile.

    In view of the foregoing, parents should monitor their children’s activity on the computer. (Prov. 29:15) It would be dangerous to invite a stranger into our home or to allow him to be alone with our children. Similarly, it is dangerous for us or our children to make friends with strangers over the Internet, even if they claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.—Prov.

    and this



    Chat allows Internet users from all over the world to communicate instantaneously with one another. Businesses use it for on-line conferences and to provide customer service. Some chat rooms allow users to share information on technical matters, such as auto repair or computer programming. Some forms of chat allow friends and family members to communicate privately without the expense of long-distance telephone calls. Though there may be legitimate uses for this medium, are there any dangers?

    There is a real need for caution when it comes to public chat rooms, for these can pose certain dangers. Writer Leah Rozen observed: “Techno-savvy teenagers are spending hours chatting online with anonymous strangers all over the country and, even, the world. Unfortunately, some of those strangers with whom teens may be talking online also happen to be adult perverts looking for sexual trysts with kids.” An article in PopularMechanics warned that “you have to be extremely careful” when using public chat rooms. Giving out your name or address to a stranger could be an invitation to serious trouble! Why subject yourself to that danger?

    A more subtle danger, though, lies in getting caught up in improper fellowship with strangers who do not respect Bible principles. Researchers say that much of the teen talk in chat rooms focuses on sexual issues. The Bible’s counsel at 1 Corinthians 15:33 is thus appropriate: “Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.” Bad associations via a computer link are dangerous. Should a God-fearing youth recklessly expose himself or herself to such risks?

    The most damning of all thought, my dear debator is the following:





    WebSitesof“Jehovah’sWitnesses”: Consider, for example, some Internet sites set up by individuals who claim to be Jehovah’s Witnesses. They invite you to visit their sites to read experiences posted by others who claim to be Witnesses. You are encouraged to share your thoughts and views about the Society’s literature. Some give recommendations about presentations that could be used in the field ministry. These sites offer chat rooms for individuals to connect to, allowing live communication with others, similar to talking on the telephone. They often point you to other sites where you can have on-line association with Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world. But can you tell for certain that these contacts have not been planted by apostates?


    Having association via the Internet may not be consistent with the recommendation found at Ephesians 5:15-17. The apostle Paul wrote: “Keep strict watch that how you walk is not as unwise but as wise persons, buying out the opportune time for yourselves, because the days are wicked. On this account cease becoming unreasonable, but go on perceiving what the will of Jehovah is.”


    The Christian congregation is the theocratic means through which we are fed spiritually by “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45-47) Within God’s organization, we find direction and protection to keep us separate from the world as well as motivation to keep busy in the work of the Lord. (1 Cor. 15:58) The psalmist indicated that he experienced joy and a feeling of security among God’s congregated people. (Ps. 27:4, 5; 55:14; 122:1) The congregation also provides spiritual support and assistance for those associated with it. Therein, you can find a group of loving, concerned, and caring friends—people you personally know who are ready and willing to help and comfort others in times of distress. (2 Cor. 7:5-7) Congregation members are protected by the Scriptural provision for disfellowshipping those who sin unrepentantly or who promote apostate thinking. (1 Cor. 5:9-13; Titus 3:10, 11) Can we expect to find these same loving arrangements when associating with others via the Internet?


    It has become apparent that the opposite is true. Some Web sites are clearly vehicles for apostate propaganda. Such Web sites may claim otherwise, and those who sponsor a site may give a detailed explanation to affirm that they truly are Jehovah’s Witnesses. They may even request information from you in order to verify that you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.


    Jehovah wants you to exercise discernment. Why? Because he knows that it will safeguard you from various dangers. Proverbs 2:10-19 opens by saying: “When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you.” Safeguard you from what? From such things as “the bad way,” those leaving upright paths, and people who are immoral and devious in their general course.


    When we go to the Kingdom Hall, there is no question that we are with our brothers. We know them. No one requires authentication of this because the brotherly love manifested makes it obvious. We are not personally required to provide credentials to prove that we truly are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is here that we find the true interchange of encouragement that Paul spoke about at Hebrews 10:24, 25. Web sites that encourage on-line association cannot be depended on to provide this. Having in mind the words of Psalm 26:4, 5 can alert us to dangers that could easily be encountered when using Web sites on the Internet.


    There are no limits or checks on the kind of information that is maintained by and accessible to Internet users. Often, children and teenagers are easy targets of crime and exploitation in this environment. Children are trusting, curious, and anxious to explore the relatively new world of cyberspace. Parents therefore need to supervise their children and give them sound Scriptural guidance about using the Internet, just as they would guide them in their choice of music or movies.—1 Cor. 15:33.


    Sadly, some who were once our brothers and sisters have had to be disfellowshipped because of association that started by meeting worldly individuals in chat rooms on the Internet and eventually led to immorality. In shocked disbelief, elders have written that some had actually left their husbands or wives to pursue a relationship that began on the Internet. (2 Tim. 3:6) Other individuals have disowned the truth because of believing information provided by apostates. (1 Tim. 4:1, 2) Given these very serious dangers, does it not seem reasonable to be cautious about becoming involved in chat sessions on the Internet? Certainly, exercising the wisdom, knowledge, thinking ability, and discernment spoken of at Proverbs 2:10-19 should safeguard us in this.


    Noticeably, there have been a number of individuals who have created Web sites ostensibly to preach the good news. Many of these sites are sponsored by indiscreet brothers. Other sites may be sponsored by apostates who wish to lure unsuspecting ones. (2 John 9-11) Commenting on whether there is a need for our brothers to create such Web sites, OurKingdomMinistry, November 1997, page 3, stated: “There is no need for any individual to prepare Internet pages about Jehovah’s Witnesses, our activities, or our beliefs. Our official site [] presents accurate information for any who want it.”

    Instead of "debating" here, why dont you spend time where it counts, in FS or studying the CD rom, which I was able to use in reproving you just now. Be a man and talk to the elders about your addiction to being here and see what they say. It may be instructive to you. Or not. and As for why Elders are here... clearly we are not "true beleivers".. we are not here defending the vast majority of the nonsense you are. There is your differance. Figure it out my man. figure it out.

    BTW... what the hell is a "practising elder"?

  • debator

    Hi elderlite

    All the documents you produced back my position they are warnings that involve self-regulation. None of them say confess to the elders. They warn us personally (And on wide ranging internet usage not just iinternet association in all it's forms and yes if my coming on here led me to have doubts or start leading a double-life as a witness trying to serve two masters. I have only myself to blame.

    Matthew 6:24
    "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.

    Atm I am answering issues that may help those that want to hear both sides.

    Would this be easier if this was just an ex-Jw forum or an apostate one where you can make sure you only hear one tune of your own choosing?

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    Debator: A quick glance on this site in less than 90 seconds makes it obvious that 95% of the particpants are obviously ex-jws - and the other 4.99% may be active but certainly no longer believe JWs are "the truth" - likely many only keep their membership in the org for sake of friends and family. In other words, they're not True believing JWs - they don't believe the GB is the mouthpiece of God as claimed.

    Obviously the latter is where I'm at. The funny thing is - so are you. Every poster and every lurker sees that.

    Yes this site welcomes anybody, even non-JWs. But the official stance of true believers in the JW org, particularly of the (believing) elders, the GB, The FDS, the Watchtower and all things related to those who call themselves faithful JWs is that this site is Not for Witnesses. No matter how much you try and tell yourself that it's a personal choice - a matter for self-regulating - the fact is that you wouldn't dare reveal your presence here to anybody in your congregation because you know they think it would be wrong.

    And I'm not telling you not to come here.

    But you well know that you are associating with disfellowshipped people here. If you hadn't known that important detail prior to this post, then you are really dense and shouldn't try debating any doctrine when you can't even recognize simple facts. (The most simple of facts is that there are many here with whom you interact with that are DFd.)

    So - again, I know who I am and I know what it means by me being here. It means that I don't think JWs have "the Truth" - If I thought so I would follow their direction on matters about associating with DFd individuals and apostates and websites that let people get into debates about JW doctrine - all of this is forbidden - and every active JW knows that. It is clear in articles like the 6/15 2006 WT and the 99KM. So those that do come here - even WT apologetics such as yourself - realize that everything that comes from the WT, doesn't have to be believed as truth. If you feel the direction in the WT and KMs don't apply to you in this matter - and you come up with some excuse: 'well this web site title says it's for JWs';

    Well, keep telling yourself whatever you have to. But do keep coming here if you desire - associate with DFd ones as you like. Interact with apostates. Get caught up in debates. Doing so will show the world that you feel that the teachings from your religion to not do this... don't apply to you. And by confirming that, you allow for the idea that other teachings from your religion may not be right either. And again, for that, we thank you.

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    Elderelite : you beat me to it.

  • debator

    ATM I am discussing this topic with you JnfB and elderlite. you are both by your own admittance current elders and Jehovah's witnesses niether of you are disfellowshipped?

    Are you calling yourselves bad association?

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    By the Way debator, besides your apologetic pride - who asked you to come here so that observers could see 'both sides'? The org is very clear that their website and publications are sufficient. Again - I'm not knocking you being here, but your claimed purpose of presenting both sides - particularly when you really don't do it well, is this something you feel Jehovah wants you to do?



    Pro WBT$ JW`s don`t need you to post for them..

    They already know what they believe..

    You preach to people,who don`t care about your opinion..

    Not even the WBT$ cares what you think..

    In Watchtower World..

    You do as your told..Or..You get the Boot..

    Pretending your above the rules,won`t help.....Ask any JW Elder on this board..

    Of course we all know your So Special..Nothing they say applies to you..

    ...................... ...OUTLAW

  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    "Are you calling yourselves bad association?" - By the WT definition absolutely. The problem is I don't claim to believe that definition. You on the other hand claim to believe the WT teachings on a lot of things (but not all - like posting here). So what about you - are you bad association for JWs since you're posting here brazenly ignoring WT counsel? You certainly are a time waster that's for sure. I tell you what - when you admit in clear words that you are violating WT teachings to even be here - then I'll consider discussing more worthwhile topics with you. But as long as you cannot admit that simple truth - everything else you post has nothing to stand on.

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