Jehovah correcting the organization

by sabastious 168 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Read the account of Moses taking the credit for the water provision miracle and that of King David's folly and his consequences.

    ...read them...

    ...you are still reading...

    ...ok now you have that fresh in your mind.

    Jehovah had a correctional arrangement in place for all his spokesmen. Story of Jonah would work great too. The point being that in the Bible God has always had this correctional arrangement for the leaders of his Earthly Organization.

    That being said, where did that arrangement go? Surely you don't believe that the Governing Body is infallable; they are most defininitely vulnerable to the misuse of power as were some of the greatest men to walk the earth that Jehovah even called friends...

    So lets bring up a hypothetical:

    The Governing Body decides to overstep their authority and abandons the Search for Bible Truth and interjects their own ideas into Watchtower Doctrine...

    What would happen? Is there an article in the Watchtower somewhere that details the consequences of their actions? Is there anything written about it? Any policies created to handle such misuse?

    The answer is no. Not one word is written into Watchtower Policy to make sure the Governing Body does their job correctly. They have absolute power in Watchtower Policy and Doctrinal Truth and New Light.

    The members are required to take their word even when they do not understand or even when a policy seemingly affects their lives in a negative way.

    The Iraelites had the security that if Moses f*cked up, he would answer very quickly for his actions. King David's subjects enjoyed the same provision.

    God does not change, it is quite odd that this arrangement no longer exists, and hasen't for a very long time.

    Now here is the real point, a Watchtower came out in 2009 Nov 15th that had this to say about the Governing Body's position:

    The spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience" is so widespread that it is like the air we breathe. (Eph. 2:2) That spirit can cause us to think that we do not need guidance from Jehovah's organization. Surely we do not want to be like Diotrephes, who would not 'receive anything from the apostle John with respect.' (3 John 9, 10) We need to guard against developing a spirit of independence. By word or action, may we never challenge the channel of communication that Jehovah is using today. (Num. 16:1-3) On the contrary, we should cherish our privilege to cooperate with the slave class. And should we not strive to be obedient and submissive to those taking the lead in our local congregation?--Read Hebrews 13:7, 17.

    This strikes me as odd. The direct correctional arrangement that God had during the Bible times is gone. That, in turn, should lower the authority of the leaders, since they have no one to answer to anymore.

    They are the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" a fitting name for the leaders in the Last Days wouldn't you think? They are the food dispensors. Not the authority on scriptual doctrine or micromanaging spiritual policies. They are guides.

    Even though they refer to themselves as humble servants, they are much more than that. Reading through the accounds of Moses and David, I don't even think they had the audacity to demand allegience like in the quote above. If you ask me, they acted more as servants than the Governing Body does.

    So here is the actual question, because I'm sure this topic could be debated for eons:

    "Do you blame anyone for choosing to follow a path seperate from the Governing Body because they feel they can't, in good conscience, follow leaders who they feel have overstepped their God-given boundries and authorities and have no one, or ever will, to answer to in this system of things?"

    -Sab

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    I wasblind, in sound body and mind, can no longer in good conscience stomach the so-called

    spiritual food dispensed by the GB , due to previous cases of Botulism and Ptomaine poisoning

    also accompanied by stomach pains and the runs.

  • palmtree67
    palmtree67

    That is an interesting quote you use there, Sab.

    They say: "The spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience is so widespread that it is like the air we breathe...........We need to guard against developing a spirit of independence......."

    Are they on guard to apply this warning to themselves at all? Are they on guard against this tendency in themselves? Or do they only think it is only the flock who needs to take this warning to heart? Are they immune to this spirit of disobedience and independence?

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    @palmtree67

    Indeed, are there any quotes that have the finger pointed at themselves specifically? They can't be content with lumping themselves in with the rank and file right? They have a high responsibility.

    -Sab

  • sabastious
  • palmtree67
    palmtree67

    Very good post, Sab.

    But I doubt you'll get a response from Alice. Even if you do, it will not likely be coherent.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Very good post, Sab.
    But I doubt you'll get a response from Alice. Even if you do, it will not likely be coherent.

    Ur prolly right :(

  • alice.in.wonderland
    alice.in.wonderland

    The Law covenant between Jehovah and the nation of natural Israel was replaced in the first century.

    it-1 p. 524 Covenant

    New Covenant. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. (Jer 31:31-34) On the night before his death, Nisan 14, 33 C.E., when he established the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, Jesus Christ announced the new covenant, to be validated by his sacrifice. (Lu 22:20) On the 50th day from his resurrection and 10 days after he had ascended to his Father, he poured out the holy spirit, which he had received from Jehovah, on his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem.—Ac 2:1-4, 17, 33; 2Co 3:6, 8, 9; Heb 2:3, 4.

    The parties to the new covenant are Jehovah, on one side, and “the Israel of God,” the spirit-begotten ones in union with Christ, making up his congregation or body, on the other side. (Heb 8:10; 12:22-24; Ga 6:15, 16; 3:26-28; Ro 2:28, 29) The new covenant is made operative by the shed blood (the sacrifice of the human life) of Jesus Christ, the value of which was presented to Jehovah after Jesus’ ascension to heaven. (Mt 26:28) When one is selected by God for the heavenly calling (Heb 3:1), God brings that one into His covenant over Christ’s sacrifice. (Ps 50:5; Heb 9:14, 15, 26) Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the new covenant (Heb 8:6; 9:15) and is the primary Seed of Abraham. (Ga 3:16) By means of Jesus’ mediatorship of the new covenant, he assists those in the covenant to become part of the real seed of Abraham (Heb 2:16; Ga 3:29) through forgiveness of their sins. Jehovah declares them righteous.—Ro 5:1, 2; 8:33; Heb 10:16, 17.

    What kind of distinct separation of powers, to prevent the abuse of power existed amongst the first century Christians that is any different than what exists in Jehovah's Organazation in our time? There are checks and balances throughout Jehovah's Organization although the Governing Body has very little power because like the first century Christians, they don't ally themselves with the secular authorities nor does anyone in Bethal receive any more money than anyone else of ever use money that goes into the organization to purchase luxury items.

    If one of the members of the Governing Body was to go astray as did Ray Franz it's exposed and visible for everyone to see.

    The “faithful and discreet slave class” doesn't make the papal claim of infallibility. Where have they overstepped their God-given boundaries or authorities?

    “By word or action, may we never challenge the channel of communication that Jehovah is using today” means moving in the direction of rebellion, not addressing any questions or doubts a person may have. This is admonition, not an invasion of free-will. Rebelling against God's visible organization is in effect rebelling against God because no other organization teaches the truth about God and his purposes. In reality, a person is free to do anything they want as you obviously have.

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    From the same article:

    One way to find our place in the congregation and give evidence that we treasure it is to cooperate fully with "the faithful and discreet slave" and its representative Governing Body. (Read Matthew 24:45-47.) We need to examine our response to the direction we receive from the slave class. Over the years, for example, we have received pointed direction on dress and grooming, entertainment, and improper use of the Internet. Do we carefully heed this good counsel so that we are spiritually protected? What about the admonition to establish a regular routine of family worship? Have we taken the advice to heart and set aside an evening for that purpose? If we are single, are we making time for personal study of the Scriptures? Jehovah will bless us individually and as families if we follow the guidance of the slave class.

    Interesting you would bring up the point of rebellion. What constitutes rebellion is very loose in the WT framework as shown in the quote above. Not cooperating with the Slave Class is disent to rebellion, which can be something as simple as brazen disregard for their pointed direction on dress and grooming.

    Also, whether the Governing Body has indeed stepped over their authority is not the point at all, I'm confused why you would ask for a for instance there. The point is what if it DID happen? Not talking about a single Governing Body member leaving, I am talking about total corruption. You don't deny it is possible within the Slave Class right?

    How would it be dealt with if it happened? Would not the Rank and File be forced to follow them into oblivion? How would God intervene? Would he?

    So I guess your Copy Paste answer was that the new covenent is wholly different than any arrangement from the Old Testament, including the public disciplinary arrangment of the misuse of power?

    Can we just pick and choose what we use from the OT and what we don't use and chalk it up to the "new covenent"?

    Did I actually hear you say the Governing Body has very little power? They have the final say. They say jump and you are compelled to say "how high."

    In reality a person is free to do anything they want as you obviously have.

    An age old fallacious argument. And I think I will let this video offer rebuttal:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector#p/u/26/Nv9IvCpiHxA

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    And Alice, you didn't answer the bold question at the end of the post:

    "Do you blame anyone for choosing to follow a path seperate from the Governing Body because they feel they can't, in good conscience, follow leaders who they feel have overstepped their God-given boundries and authorities and have no one, or ever will, to answer to in this system of things?"

    -Sab

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit