Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

by LDH 99 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  logical

  Sorry if this has already been covered, but could it be that Jesus said "Who REALLY is the faithful and discreet slave...", because he knew there would be a group claiming (falsely) to be this?

  From my experience today, the "FDS" didnt really "feed" me properly, i feel even more spiritually "hungry".

  After re-reading the scripture, im not at all convinved it related to who we are led to believe it is. I think it relates to ALL of Christs slaves on earth.

  Cleverly, the "FDS" have exhalted themselves over the rest of the JW's, we have to OBEY these "slaves" - this is not right is it?

  Maybe im just confused. I dont know.

  Edited by - logical on 3 January 2001 16:45:54
• 

  thinker

  I was at a website just yesterday that addressed this issue. The following are quotes from that site. Notice how the definition of FDS changes again & again.
  AW 22/3/93
  "The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah's Witnesses has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy". Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus' second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Never in these instances, however, did they presume or originate predictions "in the name of Jehovah". Never did they say "These are the words of Jehovah".

  Compare that to the following statements:

  WT June 15, 64:
  "As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first century christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying. All of this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it."

  "The Nations shall know..." , 1971:
  There is an authentic prophetic class of Christians among us. Jehovah has raised up a genuine "prophet" within our generation. Regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom will know that really a "prophet" of Jehovah was among them."

  WT June 1, 82:
  "Today, a remnant of this 'faithful slave' is still alive on earth. They occupy a position similar to that of Paul...when that apostle said of the wonderful truths...:"It is to us God has revealed them through his spirit."

  Awake! 6/8/1986, p.9
  "God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God...Jehovah's Witnesses."

  WT, April 1, 92
  "This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined assisted in their work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened top their message with belief.

  WT 07/01/43 p. 204
  "Every organization requires specific instructions for all those who serve in it. In the past the Lord issued his "organization instructions" to his servants through his central agency or channel ... the apostle says, Jehovah speaks to us through his Son. (Heb. 1:1,2) The Son has returned as King; he has come to his temple. He has appointed his "faithful and wise servant", who is his visible
  MOUTHPIECE.
  The Lord breaks down our organization instructions further and makes them more practicable by further instructing us through his "faithful and wise servant". He says, 'Let us assign the field, the world, to special pioneers, regular pioneers and companies of Jehovah's witnesses in an orderly way, sufficient for everyone to thoroughly witness therein, and let us place on each one the responsibility of caring for the New World interests in these respective assignments." He says the requirements for special pioneers shall be 175 hours and 50 back-calls per month, which should develop into a reasonable number of studies; and for regular pioneers 150 hours and as many back-calls and studies as can be properly developed during that time. And for company publishers he says, "Let us make a quota of 60 hours and 12 back-calls and at least one study
  a week for each publisher." These directions come to us from the Lord through his established agency directing what is required of us. It is our duty to accept this additional instruction and obey it."

  WT 06/15/57 p. 370
  "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people ... It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God ... "

  WT 07/15/60 p. 439
  "The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the "slave" class has served as God's sole collective channel of communication from heaven to earth for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth ... Thus organizationally the "discreet slave" class since 1919 has been channeling an ever-increasing flow of Biblical publications by the millions that contain the "waters of life" featuring Jehovah's will as emanating from God's throne in heaven."

  WT 10/01/67 p. 590
  "...Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.

  WT 4/1/72 p.197
  "A third way of coming to know Jehovah God is through his representatives. In ancient times he sent prophets as his special messengers. While these men foretold things to come, they also served the people by telling them of God's will for them at that time. People today ... have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as lnternational Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses..."

  WT 11/1/31
  "The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. . . . Jehovah God is the great Teacher of his children. To be sure, the publication of these truths is put forth by imperfect men, and for this reason they are not absolutely perfect in form; but they are put forth in such form as reflects God's truth that he teaches his children."

  WT 06/15/57 pg. 370)
  "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people ... It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God ... "

  WT 07/15/60 pg. 439
  "How is this divine will to be made known and brought to the attention of the worthy multitudes of men of good will toward Jehovah? ...The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the "slave" class has served as God's sole collective channel of communication from heaven to earth for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth ... Thus organizationally the "discreet slave" class since 1919 has been channeling an ever-increasing flow of Biblical publications by the millions that contain the "waters of life" featuring Jehovah's will as emanating from God's throne in heaven."

  WT 10/01/67 pg. 590
  "...Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it."

  AW 10/8/68
  "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world", even announcing a specific date...yet nothing happened. The end did not come. They were guilty of false prophecying.What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was guiding and using them."

  WT 01/10/67 p. 590
  "...Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it."

  WT 15/01/94, p. 16
  In the past, Jehovah ruled and revealed truths through individuals, such as prophets, kings and apostles. Jesus said that during his royal presence, he would identify a faithful body of followers, a 'faithful and discreet slave'. In 1919 this slave was identified as the remnant of anointed Christians. Since then, as represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, it has been the center of theocracy on earth.

  thinker
• 

  larc

  Logical,

  Jesus is not the faithful and descrete slave, because there is no such thing. It was part of a story to illustrsate a point, and that's all it was.
• 

  Martini

  Hi Lisa,
  

  ...did the citizens of Nineveh feel about Jonah? Maybe like some of us feel about the FDS?

  What does this example mean, if anything, in relation to the FDS? How much of what they have 'changed their minds' is REALLY Jehovah changing his mind, and not telling anyone?!?!?!

  Lisa are you not tired of looking for 'types' and 'anti-types'?
  I am. I mean it's not as if Jehovah reveals himself only in riddles? Does He?

  My human mind tells me that God can communicate in terms that my human mind understands. If Jehovah changed his mind I would expect that He would tell me as much. Even if it were through a FDS class.
  Had I been a citizen of Nineveh I would have listened to Jonah's explaination and no doubt could distinguish the ring of truth in his confession as to whether or not he was were honest or being less than truthful and/or lying,covering up, deceitful etc.

  Why is it no member of the FDS tells it as it is? At assemblies for example or on the net? Have you ever with your own ears heard any reasonable explaination as to why the errors/changes, etc?

  I wish they could be like Jonah and walk away from their assignment as a sign of disgust with Jehovah changing his mind and causing all those embarrasing failed predictions i.e. 1914,1925,1975 etc,etc. I wish any one of them could do what your doing right now by asking these questions in public, I would have had respect for them. Instead they let the inferior 'great crowd' class do their dirty work by dishing out what amounts to 'excuses in due season'.

  Had any of them taken the sort of decisive action that Jonah took by telling it like it is this would have truly identified them as faithful and discreet slaves of God!

  Come to think of it one GB member did. Former member Ray Franz,he alone came out and has informed people what a jackass the GB were making God out to be including themselves.
  Hey,I wonder what that says about Ray?
  You can read about it in his book Crisis of Conscience.

  Martini.

  Edited by - Martini on 3 January 2001 22:7:57
• 

  RR

  Charles Taze Russell was "that faithful and wise slave." 'nuff said!
• 

  TMS

  Lisa, I just knew you would stir things up! . . . . .now, after Jehovah acquiescing to Abraham. . . . Jehovah felt regret in his creation of man. . . The Society's spin on that is= he felt regret at the way men had acted and handled free-agency. . . I no longer accept "spin"! Jehovah felt regret. Just like Isaac "hated" Leah. . . Watchtower says "loved less," not hated. I say he hated Leah.

  TMS
• 

  SixofNine

  All one has to do, is go to the Bible and read those verses w/o any preconcieved notion, and the point that larc has made several times in this thread becomes painfully clear.

  I say painfully, because when someone pointed out to me that the F&DS is mentioned once, and only once, in the Bible, and I checked out the context, it was a little painful for me.

  Hardly seems like a Biblical mandate to base an entire religion on.
• 

  JT

  Here is a good point to ask in ref to the FDS

  jw are taught that the FDS feeds all of gods' people by means of GB who resprent them so -- it has been explained to all jw that the GB (12 dudes)are representives of the FDS (8000 and some change)

  if that is the case then:

  What role does the FDS/8000 have when it comes to selecting who will represent them-

  the GB select who will be on the GB- the 8000 anointed are not involved at all in the recommending or selecting of the GB

  it is a club UNTO itself

  smile

  JT
• 

  larc

  A good teacher knows that it is helpful in the learning process to describe a concept, then follow it up with an example or illustration. This method helps in two ways. First, I allows more time to be spent on the subject, which means it is more likely to be remembered. Second, the illustration forms a mental image better than a concept does and mental images are easier to be transfered to long term memory. Therefore, the concept and the image will be retained when combined like this.

  Jesus was a good teacher and he used this method. First, he presented an idea, and followed it immediately with and illustration. In the illustration, he told about an individual, a faithful and discrete slave, and he immediately contrasted that with just the opposite kind of individual, the evil slave. Thus, his teaching method provided a powerful leason for those who heard him and for those who read the account today. If you have read the passage lately, I would assume that the imagery is very strong in your mind.

  There is no reason to believe, however, that this story applies to anyone, any group or anything outside of the story itself. I would like you to read the story again, with your mind devoid of any influences from any source. Read it as if for the first time, with only your intellect at work. If you draw a different conclusion than I have, I would like you to explain the rationale for that conclusion.
• 

  larc

  There is a concept called Ochoms Razor. Sometimes it is called the law of parsimony. What it means is that if there are two alternative explainations for something the simplest one is more likely to be correct than the detailed, complicated one. The explaination I support is a very simple one i.e., the scripture means what it says. To go beyond that takes a great deal of some or all of the following: conjecture, speculation, reference to other authority, and very shaky logic.