Whose Voice Should We Listen To?

by AGuest 109 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Nowhere does it say..A Bush appeared,with an Angel in it..

    LOL!!..

    Your comprehension of the Written Word,is Dismal..

    I never said that it said that, sweety. If you need any help understanding it I will he happy to assist you in any way I can, dear. We can sit down together and read over it and we can work on our numbers and colors and play this little piggie went to market and then you can have some apple juice and crackers and take a nap so you don't get all grumpy and then when you wake up you can watch Dora and then play outside on the playground.

    And what would you do with that knowledge? Just curious.

    I already said that would be enough to make me beleive in god...

    Not sure that, if with that kind of view, any proof will be proof enough...

    Why? God routinely changes hearts according to christians and the bible. Are you suggesting I am too tough for god?

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Ummmmm... folks (and peace to you all!)... I can see that this conversation is beginning to deteriorate, and I really don't want that to happen. I believe dear NVL's questions are valid, even if his/her frustration is causing him/her to become... ummmm... caustic. So, I am going to try and clarify a little bit more, if he/she will permit me. And dear Outlaw/PSacto... thank you. I know you're trying to help and I truly appreciate that. Let's see, though, if we can do more to help dear NVL "get" what I'm trying to convey.

    Dear NVL, if you don't mind, I'll start with the "burning" bush thing, just so we can dispense with that once and for all (at least, I'm hoping). First, it wasn't burning, dear one. Really, it wasn't. It just LOOKED like it was "on fire" because there was a fiery being (an angel) sitting in it. Spirit beings are seraphs (yes, all of them, including the Most Holy One Himself)... which are "flying FIERY serpents." And no, not snakes. Contrary to what earthling man has taken the word to mean, “serpents” are NOT snakes but a kind of species. The specie of spirit beings is seraph. I promise you. And they ALL look "aflame" because they are very BRIGHT (when they are reflecting GOD's glory - some have been restricted from doing that, however)... and radiate. (The Most Holy One has the BRIGHTEST light, with His Son, my Lord having the second most brightest light). They are IN this light because… well, they are pretty hard to look at. Really. By OUR standards (earthling man)… they are quite… ummmm… let’s say, “challenging” to look at. The Most Holy One of Israel is most so… which is why no man can see him… and live. NOT because He would kill them… but because the flesh cannot handle it. Which is why most of the prophets were frightened… and fainted dead away when a spirit appeared to them.

    This is one of the reason why no spirit being has appeared to YOU: although you may deny this truth and think that you could handle it, I would wager that you could not. Indeed, I almost had a heart attack the first time I saw my Lord as he really is. Took me several additional times… and in small stages… before I could “behold” him in full. It wasn’t easy, I promise you.

    Second, Moses had never seen such a thing before and the only way TO describe it would be to say (to whomever he told the event, because it wasn’t he who literally wrote about it), "Like, I saw this bush, you know and, well, the thing looked like it was burning... and yet, it wasn't." And the person to whom he was speaking would no doubt say something like, "Burning but NOT burning? Yeah, right, man. I mean, how can that happen? Dude, what were YOU smokin'?" To which Moses would have responded something like, "No, seriously. I saw, like, well, white fire... IN the bush… but the bush was still there, perfectly intact. No smoke, no nothin'. Just burnin’. So, I went over to check it out."

    And so as he approaches… he hears a voice. Here’s the thing, dear NVL: he HEARD the voice because he CHOSE… to go and check the matter out. Again, he could have said, “Ain’t my problem!” or “Uh-uh, can’t be no bush burnin’ like that…” or even “Well, it might be burnin’ but if so it’s a demon and I ain’t gonna mess with it.” At any rate, his CHOICE to entertain what was even going on was the first step. Of course, the person probably asked him if he was scared and I PROMISE you he told that person that he was… but “something” helped him to know he didn’t need to be. Regardless, even if he was scared, he couldn’t turn away. He HAD to see what it was. I know. I have been there, dear one.

    How does this affect someone like you? Well, from what I’ve read thus far, you don’t even believe there could BE a “burning” bush… or better, an ANGEL in a bush making it look like it was burning… because YOU don’t even believe the Most Holy One of Israel DOES such things. Now, you might want to say here, “Oh, no, AGuest, you have me wrong – I do believe God would do such a thing.” But if that’s true, then you’ve denied that belief in virtually every response you’ve made here because your position seems to be that if the Most Holy One of Israel hasn’t manifested Himself to YOU… then He hasn’t/doesn’t to ANYONE. Think about that… because that thinking is what is standing in YOUR way.

    You can’t have it both ways, dear one: either He does manifest Himself… and chooses who to do so with… and WHY... as well as who NOT to (which I will discuss in a second)… or He doesn’t. If He DOESN’T… then your whole “how comes He can MAKE ones see/hear Him?” doesn’t fly. If He doesn’t, then He DOESN’T, right? If He DOES… and your adamant stance on those you claim He MADE see/hear tends to lead me to believe that YOU believe He DOES… then where is your argument going?

    Third, as I've explained, when the Most Holy One of Israel FORCES someone to see or hear (i.e., Pharaoh, Balaam, Belshazzar, Saul of Tarsus, etc.), it's usually not a GOOD thing... but a last resort and usually for the purpose of SHOWING someone what they now must "suffer" as a result of NOT choosing to listen/hear/see to begin with.

    Now to the "why" as stated above: your position is WHY... hasn’t He manifested Himself… to YOU. And I told you why. NOT because you don’t believe He CAN… but because you don’t believe He WILL. With YOU. You asked… but NOT EXPECTING TO HEAR ANYTHING. As I shared with you, though, faith… is… the… ASSURED EXPECTATION… of the thing HOPED for.

    To help you understand, I share what happened with me: I asked. Simply asked. I did not know at the time I asked HOW... or WHEN... the answer would come, but I had EVERY expectation that I would be answered. Absolutely NO doubt about it. None whatsoever.

    And when He DID answer… even I was skeptical at first. I even thought perhaps it WAS demons. But… I responded. I took a chance. I EXERCISED MY FAITH… DEMONSTRATED my "assured expectation"... and asked, when He called me, “Who is this, please?” And when He responded, I did not immediately believe what I heard. NOT because I didn’t think HE speaks… but because I believed (1) that demons spoke louder (due to the false teachings of the WTBTS), and thought it might be demons, and (2) who was I so that the Most Holy One of Israel would speak to ME????

    But they did (the Father and the Son, together, at first - now, it's pretty much just the Son), and when I asked why my Lord responded “Because you asked for me.”

    I first tried to deny that, but he reminded me of what I asked: To know the Son. Which I learned TRANSLATED to: to know the Truth.

    Let me explain, and I can do it by explaining what took place at a dinner a few months ago with other dear ones. They, too, said they had asked… and asked… and asked. And my Lord directed me to ask them WHAT had they asked for? The answers were virtually the same. Although they all pretty much said, “I asked to know the truth,” when I asked them WHAT truth, their answers, although slightly varying, came down to “I wanted to know what was going on, who I was, what was going to happen, etc.”

    My answer was different, though. Yes, I wanted to know the truth. The Truth. God's SON. I didn’t want to know "what" was "going on." I didn’t want to know “who” I was. I didn’t want to know “what” was “going to happen.” I didn't want to know "life's mysteries." Or something like the day's lotto numbers. For ME… ALL I wanted to know... was the Son of God. KNOW him. Not ABOUT him.

    I wanted this because we were "studying" the “Greatest Man” Book… and it occurred to ME that if this individual gave his life for ME… and God conferred ALL authority upon HIM… and we are supposed to “kiss” HIM… then he HAD to be more important than what the WTBTS was making him out to be. For all I could see, everything was “Jehovah… Jehovah… Jehovah.” But it SEEMED to me that, although “Jehovah” WAS the MOST High God… HE was telling me that I needed to know His SON. SO… that is what I asked for: I asked God to let me know His SON... better. And as a result of that request, the Son… was sent to me and revealed himself to me.

    And that’s all I asked for, dear NVL. I didn’t ask for wisdom. I didn’t ask for money. I didn’t ask to know all things. I didn’t ask to "understand the Bible." I didn't care about those things. I only cared about knowing this person who I believed loved me SO much... and so I asked to know him. And… my request was answered… as I KNEW it would be. Again, I had absolutely NO idea that it would be in the WAY it was… but I knew it would be answered. And it certainly was. To the glory of God… and the mercy and salvation of me, His servant girl.

    So… bottom line: you need to check YOUR heart out… and “see” whether or not you are receiving EXACTLY what you are asking for… and HOPING to receive. As I’ve stated, I think you are. There error is not God’s, dear one. It is yours. And it is because you have been sorely misled about these things… by the blind guides.

    BUT… it does NOT have to continue that way. You, TOO, can LISTEN… and HEAR… the Spirit and the Bride when they say to YOU:

    “Come! Take life’s water free!”

    If you HEARD that invitation, dear one… then you would RESPOND… by coming… and taking. I heard… and responded to THAT call… even before I asked to know my Lord.

    May you have ears to hear… and get the SENSE of these truths.

    I am YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    even if his/her frustration is causing him/her to become... ummmm... caustic.

    I am neither frustrated nor caustic. People often mistake pointed questions for someone being caustic.

    First, it wasn't burning, dear one. Really, it wasn't. It just LOOKED like it was "on fire" because there was a fiery being (an angel) sitting in it.

    That's fine, but it's irrelevant to the point that god or his angel acting on his behalf caused a physical manifestation in a place where moses saw it because he wanted moses to hear him (regardless of whether or not moses would agree or care). My question still remains, why doesn't god do that for everyone? Does he not care about us as well? Moses didn't have to tune in, all he had to do was...nothing.

    You can’t have it both ways, dear one: either He does manifest Himself… and chooses who to do so with… and WHY... as well as who NOT to (which I will discuss in a second)… or He doesn’t.

    I'm not trying to have it both ways, I am asking a question about the need to tune in to hear god when clearly that isn't necessary if he wants someone to hear him. I am only allowing that he does for the purposes of the discussion since he hasn't in any verifiable way except as voices in people heads. Which, BTW, raises another question, how does one determine between god and just regular old crazy voices?

    If He DOES… and your adamant stance on those you claim He MADE see/hear tends to lead me to believe that YOU believe He DOES… then where is your argument going?

    It's a question, not an argument. The question is that, if god cares, why would he only physically manifest himself or angels to certain people to inspire faith? why not everyone? why can some people pray all their life and seek god only to be empty? Either god is too busy, doesn't care, isn't listening or doesn't exist.

    So… bottom line: you need to check YOUR heart out… and “see” whether or not you are receiving EXACTLY what you are asking for… and HOPING to receive. As I’ve stated, I think you are. There error is not God’s, dear one. It is yours. And it is because you have been sorely misled about these things… by the blind guides.

    To the point about asking, you said your friends were asking for wisdom. that's what solomon asked for. Why would that be a bad thing? would a parent blame their child for asking when they would be fed if they were hungry? if that's god's attitude, then god is a bad parent.

  • belbab
    belbab

    Selby,

    Be my guest.

    I wrote a post earlier, but for some reason when I looked for it later, it was not there. I guess the angels or may be the demons prevented it, but more likely I made a stupid mistake.

    This is what I posted earlier:

    Selby,

    A baby cries at the back of a kingdom hall while a speaker on the stage is giving a public talk. Everyone hears it. For me, the sound of the crying baby is far more significant than anything the speaker is saying.

    You are the public speaker on this thread. For me the replies you are receiving carry more weight even though you say your words are from head honcho himself.

    belbab.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    I am neither frustrated nor caustic. People often mistake pointed questions for someone being caustic.....NVL

    Your post to me says different..Your very frusterated..You have no intention of addressing my post to you..

    Instead I get Juice and a Nap....LOL!!

    I never said that it said that, sweety. If you need any help understanding it I will he happy to assist you in any way I can, dear.
    We can sit down together and read over it and we can work on our numbers and colors and play this little piggie went to market
    and then you can have some apple juice and crackers and take a nap so you don't get all grumpy and then when you wake up you
    can watch Dora and then play outside on the playground.....NVL

    Instead of getting all Pissy..Read Shelbys Posts..I mean really read them..

    I`m Agnostic..Not a Christian..And..I understand everything she says..

    If you read Shelbys anwers to you..Your questions will be answered..

    Whether you believe those answers,is up to you..But..

    You will have to make the effort to Read and Understand..

    Don`t read..

    Then offer Shelby,a Nap and Juice..LOL!!

    ........................... ...OUTLAW

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    Your post to me says different..Your very frusterated..You have no intention of addressing my post to you..

    Instead I get Juice and a Nap....LOL!!

    If you try adult conversation instead of pictures and sniping comments you'll get discussion instead a time out in the corner. It's the inverse of the golden rule, you are being treated just like you have deserved.

    Instead of getting all Pissy..Read Shelbys Posts..I mean really read them..

    I did read them. If you felt I was pissy....well. Oh well. See my comment above.

    I`m Agnostic..Not a Christiam..And..I understand everything she says..
    If you read Shelbys anwers to you..Your questions will be answered..
    Whether you believe those answers,is up to you..But..
    You will have to make the effort to Read and Understand..

    Oh, I read it and I understand it. It's just not internally consistent at all. Questions that point that out tend to be viewed as caustic. When someone tried to be snarky with comments and pictures and get beat down like a redheaded step child that's talking back...well, I can see why you wouldn't like that either.

    Don`t read..
    Then offer Shelby,a Nap and Juice..LOL!!

    Why? Shelby has been perfectly polite and sincere.

  • tec
    tec

    I already said that would be enough to make me beleive in god... -NVL

    I meant, 'what would you do with the knowledge that God exists'. Not belief through faith - but knowledge because of absolute proof that God exists, since He basically came down and appeared to you, and to you specifically.

    Tammy

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    I meant, 'what would you do with the knowledge that God exists'.

    Well, then I would try to find out from him how much of the batshit crazy stuff in the bible is true.

  • tec
    tec

    Well, then I would try to find out from him how much of the batshit crazy stuff in the bible is true.

    LOL - I wasn't expecting that for an answer :-)

    Actually, it was a really personal question. I probably had no right to ask how you would respond after meeting God.

    Tammy

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    LOL - I wasn't expecting that for an answer :-)

    Actually, it was a really personal question. I probably had no right to ask how you would respond after meeting God.

    No worries! It's all good, not too personal at all.

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